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rfc:rfc164

Network Working Group J. F. Heafner Request for Comments: 164 Rand NIC 6778

              MINUTES OF NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING
                     5/16 through 5/19/71
                                Preface
 These notes are for reference and recall by those in attendance of
 the NWG meetings.  No attempt has been made toward completeness to
 make this an understandable document for those not in attendance.
 The notes are ordered chronologically.  You may notice discrepancies
 for particular schedules and tasks within the notes; the
 discrepancies represent a revision of those schedules and tasks, thus
 those dates given more recent in time are assumed to apply.
 If you detect any gross errors in this report, please make
 corrections via the accepted NIC procedures.
                               CONTENTS
    I.  SUNDAY EVENING SESSION (5/10/71) .................  4
        Introduction of Attendees ........................  4
        Site Status Reports ..............................  6
          UCLA-Sigma 7 ...................................  6
          UCLA-CCN .......................................  6
          UCSB ...........................................  7
          SRI-ARC/NIC ....................................  7
          SRI-AI .........................................  7
          Rand ...........................................  8
          SDC ............................................  8
          Illinois-CAC ...................................  9
          AMES ...........................................  9
          CCA ............................................ 10
          Case Western ................................... 10
          Carnegie ....................................... 10
          Harvard ........................................ 11
          IBM Research ................................... 11
          RADC ........................................... 11
          MIT-DM and MULTICS ............................. 11
          Lincoln ........................................ 12
          BBN-NCC ........................................ 12
          BBN/TENEX ...................................... 13
          Mitre .......................................... 13

Heafner [Page 1] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

          NBS ............................................ 14
          ETAC ........................................... 14
          Air Force Sites ................................ 14
       Other Reports ..................................... 15
         Dept. Comm., Canada ............................. 15
         U. of Chicago ................................... 15
         United Kingdom .................................. 15
         Merit-Univ. Michigan ............................ 15
         EDUCOM .......................................... 16
         Raytheon ........................................ 16
       Miscellaneous Topics .............................. 16
         Graphics ........................................ 16
         NCP Protocols ................................... 16
         IMLAC Users Group ............................... 17
         Official Document Formats ....................... 17
   II.  MONDAY MORNING SESSION (5/17/71) ................. 18
        Network Information Center ....................... 18
          Plans for NIC .................................. 18
          Concepts & Recommendations for Documentation ... 18
        TELNET ........................................... 19
  III.  MONDAY AFTERNOON SESSION (5/17/71) ............... 20
        File Transfer Protocol (RFC #114) ................ 20
        File Protocol Status Report ...................... 20
        Miscellaneous Topics ............................. 20
          Sockets ........................................ 20
          Initial Connection Protocol .................... 21
          Testing and Validation ......................... 21
   IV.  MONDAY EVENING SESSION (5/17/71) ................. 22
        Operating Systems and Networks ................... 22
    V.  TUESDAY MORNING SESSION (5/18/71) ................ 24
        DRS Working Group Meeting with Open Attendance ... 24
        Data Management on Computer Networks ............. 24
        Open Discussion on Data Management ............... 25

Heafner [Page 2] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

   VI.  TUESDAY EVENING SESSION (5/18/71) ................ 27
        Terminal IMP ..................................... 27
        Comments by Dr. Roberts .......................... 27
  VII.  WEDNESDAY MORNING SESSION (5/19/71) .............. 30
 VIII.  WEDNESDAY EVENING SESSION (5/19/71) .............. 31
        Miscellaneous Issues ............................. 32
        NWG Organization ................................. 32

Heafner [Page 3] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

                  I. SUNDAY EVENING SESSION (5/10/71)

INTRODUCTION OF ATTENDEES

 Attendees introduced themselves and stated their affiliation.  The
 following list includes persons attending any of the sessions.
 SITE                         NAME
 AMES-ILLIAC                  John McConnell
 AMES-67                      Wayne Hathaway
 ARPA                         Bruce Dolan
                              Cordell Green
                              Larry Roberts
 BBN-NCC                      Will Crowther
                              Frank Hart
                              Robert Kahn
                              Alex McKenzie
 Carnegie                     William Broadley
                              H. Van Zoeren
 Case                         Patrick Foulk
 CCA                          Richard Winter
 Dept. Comm., Canada          Terry Shepard
 EDUCOM                       Henry Chauncey
                              John LeGates
 Harvard                      R. Metcalfe
                              R. Sundberg
 IBM Research                 Douglas McKay
 Illinois-CAC                 Jack Bouknight
                              G. R. Grossman
                              Jim Madden
 Lincoln Labs                 Richard Kalin
                              Joel Winett

Heafner [Page 4] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

 Merit                        Al Cocanower
                              Brian S. Read
 Merit-Univ. Mich.            W. Scott Gerstenberger
 MIT-DM                       Abhay Bhushan
                              Robert Fleischer
                              Albert Vezza
 MIT-MULTICS                  J. C. R. Licklider
                              Mike Padlipsky
 Mitre                        P. Karp
                              David Wood
                              Gene Raichelson
 NBS                          G. Lindamood
                              T. N. Pyke
 RADC                         Tom Lawrence
                              Bob Walker
 Rand                         E. F. Harslem
                              J. F. Heafner
 Raytheon                     T. O'Sullivan
 SDC                          Robert Long
                              Arie Shoshani
 SRI-ARC-NIC                  Charles Irby
                              John Melvin
                              R. W. Watson
 Stony Brook                  Ralph Akkoyunlu
                              Art Bernstein
                              M. Inam Ul Haq
                              Richard Schantz
 Univ. of Chicago             R. Ashenhurst
 UCLA-CCN                     Robert Braden
                              Steve Wolfe

Heafner [Page 5] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

 UCLA-NMC                     Vint Cerf
                              Steve Crocker
                              Ari Ollikainen
                              John Postel
                              Rollin Weeks
 UCSB                         Steve Lynch
                              Jim White
 U. K.                        Eric Foxley
 Univ. of London              Peter Kirstein
 Univ. of Mo.                 Dan Garigan
 Univ. of Penna.              Don Bernard
 Univ. of Waterloo            Don Cowan

SITE STATUS REPORTS

 The following are summaries of reports given by affiliates of the
 indicated sites.
 UCLA-Sigma 7
    o    NCP (document 1) and user/server TELNET-like protocol have
         been operational for three months.
    o    NCP (RFC #107) will be implemented by June 1.
    o    TELNET will be implemented within one month of official
         specification.
    o    Have been and will continue to gather Network measurements.
    o    Will use UCSB file protocol in conjunction with above.
 UCLA-CCN
    o    Local hardware has been connected to IMP.
    o    NCP (RFC #107) 70% complete.
    o    NCP (RFC #107) and NETRJS will be in production on JULY 1.
    o    Draft of NETCRT will be issued as RFC soon.

Heafner [Page 6] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

    o    They can offer APL and are looking for interested users.
 UCSB
    o    UCSB is a service center; 360/75 + 2314 storage.
    o    NCP (doc. 1) operational since mid-October 1970.
    o    NCP (RFC #107) operational and verified remotely.
    o    Services currently offered:
            1) UCSB on-line system
            2) RJE/RJ0
            3) file system
            4) local interfaces to net via F0RTRAN, PL/1, etc.
    o    Short range plans:
            1) DRS implementation and experimental service
            2) Interested in APL
            3) Distributed data base experiment with SRI
 SRI-ARC/NIC
    o    Now running NCP (doc. 1) in TENEX.
    o    NCP (RFC #107) will be installed when BBN releases it.
    o    They are currently examining and tuning TENEX parameters and
         resolving interface difficulties.
    o    Stage 0 plans include initial work with West Coast sites to
         gain experience, in using NIC, with respect to response
         times, traffic loads.  This will initially look like TENEX to
         a user.  Later, this will appear as a virtual machine to
         remote users via a special NIC subsystem.
 SRI-AI (reported by SRI-ARC personnel)
    o    Configuration includes PDP-10, TENEX, high-speed drum, robot.
    o    Probable Network connection in July.
    o    Software includes various theorem-proving mechanisms.
    o    Interested in working on the above over the Network.

Heafner [Page 7] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

 RAND
    o    Current configuration includes 360/65, 1800, IMP, video
         graphics system.
    o    NCP (RFC #107) in 360/65 in daily production use in
         conjunction with UCSB.
    o    Network Services Program (NSP) used in above features:
            1) dynamic access to local files
            2) access to video consoles
            3) access to NCP
            4) UCSB RJE/RJ0 protocol
            5) UCLA NETRJS protocol (not operational)
            6) Logger and TELNET-like protocols.
    o    PDP-10 to be connected into Net (directly to IMP) in about
         two months -- will eventually run TENEX and be a service
         center.
    o    Short range software development includes TELNET and DRS.
    o    Will continue to provide production support for Climate
         Dynamics.
    o    Hardware is 360/65 connected to Honeywell 516 connected to
         IMP.
    o    NCP (doc. 1) verified with Rand.
 SDC
    o    360/65 runs Adept timesharing, has 10 users, can do protocols
         from a user process.
    o    NCP (RFC #107) will be coded by end of month.
    o    Logger fairly close to being checked out.
    o    Will have TELNET similar to RFC #137 by June 1; will offer it
         by 20 August.

Heafner [Page 8] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

    o    SDC not meant to be a general service; will allow 1 to 4
         users; can use Adept to run a job.
    o    Experimentation plans include:
            1) Voice I/O will use Net to communicate with speech
               researchers (will respond to specific programs only)
            2) Eventually graphic I/O
            3) Man/machine synergism
            4) Network data management
            5) Network resources Notebook use and update.
 ILLINOIS-CAC
    o    IMP works.
    o    Will use B5500 on campus since B6500 doesn't work.
    o    Will link to PDP-11 at Paoli for I4 software development --
         not a general link for everyone.
 AMES
    o    Probably will be two separate nodes ILLIAC and 360/67.
    o    Plans are in rumor stage.
    o    Plan TIP by end of summer to gain access to I4 simulator.
    o    Duplex 360/67 will be regular host node.
    o    Are looking for an NCP implementer.
    o    Will use other services; laser store and UCSB.
    o    Their general research includes an interest in Network
         accounting and management.
    o    Will go onto Net as soon as possible to ILLINOIS.
    o    Will go on via TIP if it can support two nodes.
    o    Will define Net protocol for interactive graphics for I4.
    o    Plan to get on Net before I4 comes up.

Heafner [Page 9] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

 CCA
    o    CCA is responsible for data computer project.
    o    It is special purpose computer with large storage device.
    o    Data computer (PDP-10 and laser memory) should be viewed as
         one black box.
    o    Will have two ports -- high-speed to I4 and low-speed to IMP.
    o    Data language and data will pass over ports.  This will
         include requests of files and portions of files, update,
         manipulation, and transformation of data.  It will not
         include number crunching.  Only access to the laser store
         will be through the black box data computer.
    o    Hardware and communications are specified.
    o    Data computer services are beginning to be defined, (600
         questionnaires were sent out, 10 responses were received).
         With regard to services please call Dick Winter on (617)
         491-3670.  Dick wishes to hear from any potential user.
    o    Laser store is one trillion bits of on-line storage packaged
         in 40 packs containing 10 mylar strips each.  Strips are kept
         in a carousel that can be rotated and mounted in 10 seconds.
         Access to any track is a maximum of 400 ms.
    o    Laser will arrive at CCA in early 1972 and move in late '72.
         Services to laser while located at CCA will be offered.
    o    CCA will send out plans (as feasible) as RFCs.
 CASE WESTERN
    o    Hardware has been built (PDP-10) and starting to test it.
 CARNEGIE
    o    Hardware includes PDP-10 240K 36-bit words, TTY, etc.
    o    Currently using DEC monitor.
    o    Will modify Harvard's version of the monitor.

Heafner [Page 10] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

 HARVARD
    o    Hardware includes PDP-10 with PDP-1 as graphics devices
         handler.
    o    Hardware is up, talking back and forth.
    o    NCP (RFC #107) for PDP-10 will be completed by the end of the
         month.
    o    PDP-10 has 48K 36-bit words; expect more core after July;
         will then make NCP resident.
    o    Interested in file transfer, graphics, extensible languages,
         experiments of distributed processes.
 IBM RESEARCH
    o    IBM will buy an IMP, now negotiating it.
    o    They are designing new concept of Networking.
    o    They will become an active node with either a 67 or a 91.
         The candidate 91 now has 300-400K.
 RADC
    o    TIP is scheduled for delivery in October.
    o    They will provide local access to the SRI on-line system.
    o    They are interested in the July graphics meeting sponsored by
         MIT. (Al Vezza)
 MIT DM AND MULTICS
    o    GE-645 runs MULTICS: PDP-10 is for dynamic modeling of
         graphics systems.
    o    NCP (RFC #107) on PDP-10 by end of week.
    o    Logger on PDP-10 available by 15 June.
    o    NCP (RFC #107) available on MULTICS by 11 June.
    o    Logger and TELNET available on MULTICS by first week of July.

Heafner [Page 11] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

    o    They have been conducting file transfer experiments of
         simplified ASCII transfers (not RFC #114).
    o    Interests include:
            1)  File transfers
            2) E & S processing to IMLAC and ARDS formats
            3) DRS service.
 LINCOLN
    o    Three connections are planned.
    o    360/67 has NCP, logger, TELNET, and some file transfer
         protocol.
    o    TX-2 NCP is being developed.  An interim NCP is working with
         file transfer experiments, error detection and correction.
    o    They are experiencing hardware difficulties with the third
         connection.
    o    360/67 has been running NCP (doc. 1) and a TELNET-like
         protocol since 1 March.  UCLA and Rand have logged in.  The
         TELNET-like protocol supports ASCII and EBCDIC.
    o    NCP (RFC #107), TELNET, and logger will be operational on 67
         by 1 July.
 BBN-NCC
    o    NCC is responsible for maintaining the subnet and interfacing
         with Honeywell and AT&T.  They are planning a mechanism for
         repair of the Net from their homes.  The subnet has
         experienced a 98% up time.
    o    An operational 316 version of the IMP has been hooked into
         the Net since February.  It is a production item at 1/2 cost
         of 516; the IMP programs are identical.
    o    The 316 will be incorporated into the TIP.  The multi-line
         controller has been fabricated and is being debugged.  A
         common language for the TIP has been developed.  TIP will be
         delivered to NASA Ames on 1 August.  The TIP will handle 64
         lines up to 19.2K bits.  BBN is still shaking down the kinds
         of terminals that will be compatible (will be bit serial at
         least).  They are working with sites to determine terminal
         requirements.

Heafner [Page 12] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

    o    The resource notebook has been compiled and distributed.
         Twelve of 19 sites are included in the notebook.  SDC has
         since reported.  Stanford, SRI/AI, MIT/DM, UTAH, Carnegie,
         LL/67 have not provided an entry.  BBN again made a call for
         responses and asked that each site stay up-to-date.  A
         comment was made regarding the Notebook that a mechanism is
         needed for a) date of information, b) complaints of
         information, c) reporting that advertised procedures do not
         work.
    o    TIP delivery for the rest of the year is to the following
         five sites:  Ames, Mitre, Rome, ETAC in Washington, D.C., and
         NBS.
    o    BBN has been studying performance of Network to learn ways to
         improve it.  An earlier Rand RFC reported a very low rate for
         a total Network experiment -- Rand re-ran the experiment to
         examine just the subnet performance and reported the subnet
         rate to be in the 13-15K bit range for that test.  MIT/DM has
         reported a 5KB rate that will be examined further.  BBN made
         a general offer to the Net community to phone NCC in the
         event that such measurements are taken and low data rates are
         discovered.
    o    The BBN-Honeywell relationship is a straightforward
         maintenance contract that includes P.M. and other problems
         which arise.  BBN stated that a 24-hour delay in service
         would be unusually long.  BBN would like to be kept informed
         of views and opinions of the Honeywell service.  BBN asks
         that each site keep a maintenance log and copy it to Marty
         Thrope at BBN.
 BBN/TENEX (reported by BBN/NCC)
    o    BBN has a three-host IMP that includes NCC and two PDP-10s.
         One 10 is for operational use, the other for experimentation.
    o    Software for the PDP-10 is TENEX.
    o    They are interested in getting involved in Network
         experimentation.
 MITRE
    o    Expect TIP delivery in September.
    o    Now using PDP-10 at BBN.

Heafner [Page 13] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

    o    Will work on sample data management system using UCSB file
         storage.
 NBS
    o    Expect TIP delivery in December.
    o    Have selected PDP-11 as host; ready by December.
    o    Will build from the U. of Illinois operating system.
    o    Contemplating attaching their UNIVAC 1108 to Network.
    o    Will provide experimental access to Network for services:
            1) measurement (performance)
            2) graphics
            3) personal communication
            4) lab automation
            5) support NBS with services appropriate
            6) provide local hardcopy from PDP-11.
 ETAC (Environmental Technical Application Center
    o    ETAC, located in the Washington area, is a branch of Global
         Weather Service.
    o    Air Weather Service in Omaha, Nebraska, has seven 1108s
         providing weather data; one will be connected to Net to
         provide daily weather information to ETAC in Washington.
    o    ETAC has 1401 and 7040 in Washington to produce summaries for
         longer range use; the 7040 may go on the Network.
 AIR FORCE SITES (reported by ARPA)
    o    To export technology to other regions, two Air Force sites
         (Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and Sacramento, California) will
         temporarily join the ARPA Net to talk only to each other in
         an operation to parallel their AUTODIN connection.  If it
         materializes, they will run for the first six months of '72
         but probably won't continue.  The motivation is to examine
         the Net ideas for developing a wholly autonomous network in
         three or four years.

Heafner [Page 14] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

OTHER REPORTS

 DEPT. COMM., CANADA
         The Canadian Government wishes to optimize the use of all
         computers in Canada.
         They now have a banking network.
         They are interested in a small net for universities.
         Their largest problem is the size of the country in relation
         to the sparseness of population.
 U. OF CHICAGO
         The University of Chicago has no current time schedule but
         they have definite ideas about what they wish to accomplish
         and they are seeking funding.  They are applying to NSF to
         support a local net on campus for lab automation.  They have
         good people and good equipment; the idea is to make it
         coherent.
         Their interest in the ARPA Network is to make shared software
         available to their people and to a limited extent, make local
         services available to other ARPA nodes.  Their proposed host
         is a PDP-11 to the mini computers and a second host (PDP-10)
         as a big software engine to make data available to the mini
         computers.  The PDP-10 and PDP-11 will perhaps be linked
         together.  They also expect to get a TIP to provide remote
         number crunching for their people.
 UNITED KINGDOM
         They have proposed three main machines and three terminal
         nodes.  They have in mind the 906A, approximately the 360/75
         in power.
         Their Post Office also has plans for a digital network in the
         distant future.
 MERIT
 MERIT-UNIV. MICH.
         Most of the bugs are out of the hardware.
         Most of the software is written.

Heafner [Page 15] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

         Will have PDP-11s by the end of the summer that are capable
         of transmission from one to another.
         They will need and are now studying a TELNET-like protocol.
         They are concerned with orderly communication of the two
         processors; will later become concerned about process-process
         communication.
 EDUCOM
         EDUCOM involves 100 major universities including most of
         those now in the ARPA Network.  For two years, they have been
         running a network without wires.  They assume the ARPA
         Network can resolve the technical issues.  They are looking
         into marketing, contracts, documenting, etc., for running the
         network.  They have conducted a survey of 70 universities,
         polled about their interests in the ARPA network: 60 of 70
         are interested, 14 have money and are ready to become sites.
 RAYTHEON
         They will access the Net through the four Boston nodes.
         Their interests include:
          1) experiments of file transfer conversions.
          2) indexing behavioral data to allow one to search an index
             to see if the body of data of interest is within the
             Network.

MISCELLANEOUS TOPICS

Graphics

 Al Vezza will host a July meeting of a small group interested in
 Network graphics.  The price of admission is a sincere interest,
 working background, and a prepared talk.

NCP Protocols

 A new official document will replace document 1 and RFC #107;
 implementation should not be held up because of the absence of this
 new document.
 The long range protocol committee chaired by Carnegie has been
 disbanded.

Heafner [Page 16] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

IMLAC Users Group

 A quick survey was taken to determine which sites had or planned to
 get an IMLAC.  The plan is to form an IMLAC users group.  The
 following sites have or plan to get one:  UCLA-S7, AMES-67, BBN,
 SRI-ARC, Stanford, MIT-DM, MIT-MULTICS, Mitre, Case, Raytheon, U. of
 Illinois.

Official Document Formats

 The notion of a functional document was suggested, one of which would
 be the document of official protocols with divisions of levels of
 protocols.

Heafner [Page 17] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

                 II.  MONDAY MORNING SESSION (5/17/71)

NETWORK INFORMATION CENTER

Plans for NIC

 Two activities are planned for this summer, off-line mail and on-line
 access.  The off-line service will continue after the on-line service
 has come into being.  Plans for getting on the Net via PDP-10
 (replaced XDS-940) are almost complete.  Response times for display
 use are marginal.
 The activities will be developed in stages.  Stage 0 (June 18) NIC
 will work with West Coast sites.  This will involve providing NLS
 facilities to allow people to create messages with initial delivery
 as hardcopy, etc., with automatic generation of catalog entry and NIC
 #.  This system has been used locally for about a month.  Stage 1
 (August 2) NIC will be open to the Net community as a whole.  Remote
 users will come in directly to the on-line system and will have on-
 line access to the catalog.  Users will be trained either at SRI or
 at their own sites before coming on.  Four to eight concurrent
 terminals will be supported.  Stage 2 will include file transfer
 protocol, on-line delivery of messages, remote editing of SRI-located
 text.  Prior to stage 0, a course will be offered (on June 16, 17)
 for UCLA, Rand, SDC, UCSB, Ames, and RADC for the use of Stage 0.
 The second group of users (after stage 0) will use NIC to do their
 own site documentation.

Concepts & Recommendations for Documentation

 The NIC # is a unique "name" for reference -- it has no other
 meaning. Other numbering schema such as RFC numbers will eventually
 go away.  However, the subgroups, such as RFCs, will remain.
 Appropriate set manipulators will be provided for assisting in
 storage and retrieval.
 The notion of functional documents was introduced (see RFC #115).
 This is to be a document whose purpose is reasonably stable over
 time.  It can have subdocuments that change more frequently.  A
 current list of functional documents includes the NIC Catalog,
 Directory of People, Resources Notebook, Protocols, and Site
 Facilities (one for each site).
 The mechanism of documentation is the responsibility of NIC; the
 document contents are the responsibility of the author.  There are
 two cases of document revision; replace part of the document and
 replace the entire document.  In general, NIC would like the document

Heafner [Page 18] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

 to be re-issued in its entirety with a new NIC # rather than issuing
 errata.  The functional documents are in looseleaf form, new pages
 can be issued with the same number and a revision date.
 Documents are reproduced and mailed to site liaisons 24-48 hours
 after receipt.  They are mailed to station agents on a weekly basis.
 When mailing is handled directly by a site, a copy of the document
 and a distribution list should also be sent to NIC.  In the past, NIC
 has supplied abstracts of documents for the catalog; NIC requests
 that the authors include an abstract.

TELNET

 The purpose of TELNET is to provide an immediate mechanism for
 communication between keyboard terminals and serving processes, with
 sufficient platform for later expansion and sophistication.
 Tom O'Sullivan described TELNET as delineated in RFC #137.  (Later in
 these NWG meetings, Tom issued RFC #158, a new TELNET protocol.)
 After the description, many issues and questions were raised, viz.,
 can TELNET expect "recovery" from NCP, 128 vs. 256 character set, DLE
 + 7-bit code vs. high-order bit on, should protocol extend service
 beyond what level consoles see, human factors, if information is
 available at second level should it be passed to TELNET, TWX-like
 service from NIC, mailbox protocol, etc.
 In large part, these issues were raised but not resolved.  It was
 agreed that an RFC would be forthcoming (RFC #158, published later at
 the meetings) followed by a functional document.

Heafner [Page 19] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

               III.  MONDAY AFTERNOON SESSION (5/17/71)

FILE TRANSFER PROTOCOL (RFC #114)

 The file transfer protocol (RFC #114) was described.  See also RFC
 #133 and RFC #141.
 A simplified version of RFC #114 is being implemented by MIT/DM and
 MIT/MULTICS in order to: 1) allow Dynamic Modeling access to MULTICS
 file storage facility and 2) conduct a pilot project to gain
 understanding of such protocols.
 It was noted that RFC #114 was not simple enough to implement for
 TIPs.
 A group was formed to meet Wednesday morning for more discussion and
 to exactly define the problems.  The group would include
 representatives from UCLA, UCSB, BBN, MIT, Rand, SRI, Harvard.

FILE PROTOCOL STATUS REPORT

 UCSB described the status of RFC #122, A Simple Minded File System,
 as an operational program; not a proposal.  The basic concepts of the
 file system were described; the design objective was to provide a
 simple service quickly.
 Currently one 2314 drive and pack is available.  At most four drives
 will be made available during the next year.  It is also not clear
 how long space will remain available.  The storage is currently free.
 Sites that will use the file system are Mitre, via BBN, UCLA, SRI,
 and Raytheon via one of the Boston hosts.

MISCELLANEOUS TOPICS

Sockets

 Socket name structure was briefly discussed.  Relevant RFCs that were
 mentioned were 1) RFC #129 whose purpose was to describe socket
 structures enumerated at the February NWG meetings, and 2) RFC #147,
 a recently proposed structure.
 It was pointed out that there was a definite need to reduce the
 socket length from 32 to 16 bits (a TIP storage problem) regardless
 of its structure.

Heafner [Page 20] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

 A committee (Bob Metcalfe, Chairman with Abhay Bhushan and Joel
 Winett) was appointed to produce a report in two weeks.  The
 committee is to address the following three issues:
    1) is a socket structure needed
    2) are more than 16 bits needed
    3) what procedures are recommended for managing socket numbers.

Initial Connection Protocol

 Race conditions and time out problems were elucidated.  See RFC #123,
 127, and 151.
 A committee (chaired by Jon Postel and including Steve Wolfe, Eric
 Harslem, and Arie Shoshani) was appointed to clean up the ICP
 specification.

Testing and Validation

 Sites wishing a remote partner to exchange NCP, TELNET, and logger
 protocols can contact Rand.  Rand was to collect status information
 before and during these exercises.  Information was to be forwarded
 to Alex McKenzie to maintain and update status reports.  (NOTE:  A
 later steering committee decision reflects on the way in which this
 information is gathered, however.  Rand is still available for
 testing and validation.)

Heafner [Page 21] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

                 IV.  MONDAY EVENING SESSION (5/17/71)
 NOTE: Minutes of this session were kindly prepared by Bob Walker,
 RADC.

OPERATING SYSTEMS AND NETWORKS

 An attempt was made to study the ARPA Networks from an academic point
 of view.  An analogy was drawn on the basis that the ARPA Network
 with its hosts and protocols is in a sense an "operating system" and
 that a study of what makes a good operating system might help define
 what makes a good ARPA Network.
 Professor Art J. Bernstein of Stony Brook gave a presentation
 abstracting what he considered to be the features of a flexible
 operating system, the techniques for obtaining such; and when
 appropriate, a discussion of those aspects where a difference in
 techniques is required between dealing with an internal operating
 system and dealing with a network.
 The features of a flexible operating system were cited as:  (1) a
 flexible file structure, (2) a process hierarchy, and (3) an
 interprocess communication facility (IPC).  The terminology and
 techniques described to obtain these three features were essentially
 those developed for the MULTICS system.
 A file structure capability was defined in terms of hierarchy of
 directories, tree names, active file table, hold count, known file
 table, and reference number.
 A process hierarchy was discussed in terms of father-son relationship
 and a father-node spawning a son node, creating an entry in the known
 file table and assigning resources, all embodied in the SPAWN
 primitive.  Implementation of primitives as time independent was
 stressed as being crucial to Network activity whereas not necessarily
 so for an internal operating system.  This lead into the concept
 subcontracting process, where executive type functions are treated on
 the same basis as user processes and as such are swappable.  The
 "link process" was then described as the interface mechanism between
 two cooperating machines.
 Interprocess communication was discussed in terms of channels, status
 return and software interrupts.  Appropriate primitives were defined
 in detail as well as control type problems.

Heafner [Page 22] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

 The discussion then went to file handling and a specification of the
 required primitives and thence to directory handling, specification
 of related primitives, and the mechanics of directory handling,
 specifically the outstanding operation entry table in the executive.
 After a short recess, Bob Metcalfe gave a presentation from the ARPA
 Network point of view with reference to various points of Professor
 Bernstein's presentation.  He noted the all pervasive tree structure
 in Bernstein's presentation which appears to be most efficient to
 internal operating systems (i.e., file system, process hierarchy,
 etc.), but that the ARPA Network is not a tree structure but rather a
 directed graph and that we should be careful not to impose tree
 structure thinking on a directed graph type situation.
 A number of questions and problem areas were elicited from the group
 and listed on the blackboard:
    1) How much does the operating system need to know about the
       Network to get how much and vice versa?
    2) Degree of transparency to the user?
    3) "Optimal" resource allocation on the Network?
    4) Autonomy versus centralization of control.
    5) Resiliency.
 The group discussed the need for a committee on Theory, how it should
 function, how often should they meet, requirements for attendance,
 etc.  Dave Walden was mentioned as a possible organizer of a related
 effort.  Bob Metcalfe agreed to chair such a committee.

Heafner [Page 23] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

                 V.  TUESDAY MORNING SESSION (5/18/71)

DRS WORKING GROUP MEETING WITH OPEN ATTENDANCE

 The purpose of the Data Reconfiguration Service meeting was to
 resolve several lingering syntax and semantics issues and also to
 receive comments and discuss the DRS with the entire Net community.
 A brief overview of the DRS (see RFC #138) was given.
 Remaining technical issues were resolved.  An implementation
 specification (replacing RFC #138) will be issued soon.
 Initial implementers and users were polled for schedules and initial
 experiments, results are shown below.
 MIT        No dates currently provided
 U. of Ill. One or two months will be required to reformat from remote
            formats to GOULD printer; also conversion of ARDS to
            COMPUTEC strings.
 UCSB       Implementation of service in two months; will provide
            system forms for remote TTY-like devices to access UCSB
            on-line system.
 MITRE      Will compare performance of DRS to current software of
            UCSB file experiment.
 Rand       implement service by September; initial use to specify
            UCSB RJE/RJ0 and UCLA NETRJS formats for local users.
 UCLA       will have a compiler of forms within one month unless
            serious difficulties arise.

DATA MANAGEMENT ON COMPUTER NETWORKS

 SDC presented RFC #144 (see also RFC #146).  Arie Shoshani presented
 considerations and approaches that can be taken to achieve data
 sharing.  The considerations were common language, sharing of
 existing data, evolutionary/revolutionary, future and use facility,
 further development, implementation, and speed.
 Approaches given were:
       1)  centralized
           a) new data only
           b) existing data
       2)  standardized data
       3) integrated - common languages + interfaces
           a) interface on different nodes
           b) interface on service node
           c) Data Reconfiguration Service
       4) Unified

Heafner [Page 24] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

 Dick Winter described the CCA approach.  With several data computers
 it becomes decentralized.  All data computers have identical hardware
 and software.  Their objective is to dispose and restructure data
 throughout the Net to optimize its use, i.e., relocate it close to
 where it is used most heavily.  For small files of wide interest
 multiple copies can be maintained.
 Dr. Roberts commented that with respect to the Network, no
 distance/cost relationship exists if data is retrieved more than one
 link away.  The reason for putting files in several places is
 reliability.  He views the CCA approach as a Net-level language, thus
 the unified approach.  Also the natural language approach is suitable
 as a research project but not suitable for data management for real
 Net experiments.
 CCA will present a proposal of data language at the next NWG meeting.

OPEN DISCUSSION ON DATA MANAGEMENT

 This time period was initially allocated to the description of a
 particular data management system being constructed by Mitre.  It
 became, in fact, an open discussion of general principles and
 requirements for data management in the Network.  The following were
 among the most recurrent comments made.
 1.  DRS, file protocol, and data management should be examined in a
     comprehensive way.
 2.  Important considerations of data management are to allow users to
     define and restructure files logically, to move towards
     transparency of the Net, and to move toward natural language.
 3.  A data management system should include functions for define,
     access, manipulate, analyze, store of files.  For example, the
     data computer doesn't do formatting for output (like an RPG), it
     can take a number of conditions and do conditional retrieval but
     not RPG.
 4.  A data management system could be developed in stages where a)
     the user explicitly moves data around the Net, b) the user
     specifies the location but the access is integrated
     automatically, c) location is maintained by the service.
 5.  An area should be defined between file handling and application
     specific manipulation, and the area should be treated in a system
     wide way.

Heafner [Page 25] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

 6.  The super file (too large for any one individual to economically
     own) never came up before but it is reasonable for the Net.
     However it is just one use and there still will be need of many
     10^9 files.
 7.  Privacy and security criteria should be applied at output rather
     than input, which is an argument for having processing capability
     at the location of the file.
 8.  Dr. Roberts indicated that the things that are important are what
     things are on the Net, and what things are there to say.  The
     structure depends on what there is to say.  Thus, one should
     concentrate on the language and not the structure.
 9.  The data management system can be viewed as having two parts: 1)
     the request, 2) the response and format.  On the response side
     (operand side) there is the taxonomy of data types and a template
     of data followed by the data.  A template is a string in which
     data types or their descriptions are given with knowledge of
     iteration, recursion, and data types.  On the request (operator)
     side, templates can be used to precisely specify the data to be
     retrieved, assuming the structure of the file is already
     specified.
 10. The disposition and request are over structures to the response.
 A small group was established to continue discussion on data
 management.

Heafner [Page 26] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

                VI.  TUESDAY EVENING SESSION (5/18/71)

TERMINAL IMP

 The TIP can either be configured with 1) one host and two phone lines
 or 2) three phone lines.  Interfaces will provide 19.2KB to lowest
 TTY speeds for each line.  It can handle various terminals and
 devices.
 Normally the user speaks through the TIP but a primitive language
 exists for talking to the TIP.  Commands will exist to do the
 particular protocols such as logger.  Other commands will be present
 for terminate on line feed, on character, now, on nth char., at end
 of message, i.e., class of things to determine when message is sent.
 There is another class to determine echoing.  Device rates can be set
 up.  The serving site can also set up command such as capturing a
 printer.
 The TIP is currently trying to comply with all second and third level
 protocols such as TELNET, file transfer (when defined).
 Current plans are that the TIP cannot be reloaded through the
 Network.
 When new terminals are added, BBN will supply the TIP routines as
 part of the service.
 The TIP is intended to be used for RJE, terminal to process, and
 later tape to tape.  The TIP is intended to be a switch rather than
 an operating system, under the assumption that power will reside in
 terminals and service centers.
 The program limits the bandwidth -- the sum of input and output is
 100KB.
 Potential for TIP delivery is about one every three weeks after
 August.  An upper figure for the TIP is $100K; the leasable terms are
 $40K/yr. for three years plus a residual of $5K to own it, with a
 two-year minimum.  This was designed as an alternate method of
 purchase.

"COMMENTS BY DR. ROBERTS"

 The major cost benefit in the near term to getting on the Network
 will be to use other physical systems to access new resources.  It
 will be a number of years before people enter the Network in order to
 get rid of machines or to boost CPU usage.

Heafner [Page 27] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

 Regarding future Network growth, the University of California has
 proposed to enter seven universities into the Network.  We should
 have the data and program sharing protocols fixed by that time.  ETAC
 will be working on the past 10 years weather in 10^11 store.  NCAR
 will be trading time (a 6600 and a 7600) with them and with ILLIAC;
 use is restricted to weather work.  January or February are probable
 dates.  This will be a third cross country connection through UTAH
 perhaps (second is via Omaha weather).  SC will be added in March or
 April '72 for picture processing.  England will join about February '
 72.  There are other plans to tie in Mexico, France, Israel,
 Australia, Japan, Hawaii, Canada, etc. that could possibly all happen
 in '72.
 With regard to operating the Network, ARPA will not operate it
 indefinitely.  One plan is to have AT&T operate it since they can
 legally sell the services; this will not come about soon.  A
 commercial organization (not a common carrier) can only operate the
 Net under Government sponsorship.  The current plan is to have BBN
 run the Net as a service for the Government; this will be settled
 within the coming year.
 On the question of resources, setting up contracts with the service
 people at each site to get one agent to ship money for various
 subcontracts is a basic legal framework; for ARPA purposes it is
 sufficient to have only one connection with each site.
 On software development, the NCP progress has been extremely poor and
 slow.  The second iteration should have been defined by now from
 experiences with the first.  Towards the end of the year a new
 protocol should be defined to last for a couple of years.  Accounting
 and billing protocol should also be defined.  The NCP protocol is
 getting to be a critical problem -- everyone should be complete and
 consistent with the current protocol by July 1.  Without it, there
 will be serious problems of bringing new people onto the Net.  For
 example, the I4 and the laser store will be on the Net by March or
 April of '72 with serious people wanting to use it (80% of its use
 will be remote).  By early '72 the Net must be a solid working
 entity.
 The question of profit making time-sharing companies on the Net
 depends on whether or not AT&T takes over Net operations.
 The capital arrangement for non-ARPA users to be on the Net is as
 follows.  A federal agency can donate $76K and get a TIP.  Non-
 federal agencies can pay $36K per year for the TIP for three years
 plus the $5K residual to own it.  ARPA will not decide casually to
 allow non-federal agencies on.

Heafner [Page 28] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

 Regarding software support services, documentation will be upgraded
 so all sites need not keep complete NIC documentation (except service
 sites).  In service centers it makes sense to add one or two
 personnel to work on net service programs, work with users, etc., if
 needed.  Research centers will now have to concern themselves with
 reliability, integrity, and problems of access.
 Regarding the charging mechanism for the data computer, the 10^12
 store cost one million, plus the cost of the PDP-10; thus 10^-4
 cents/bit is reasonable for permanent storage.  The rate for short
 term storage strips (like two weeks) will be about the same.  If
 medium term storage is needed, a rate will be worked out.  ARPA will
 pay for this storage as backup for the sites.
 The on-lineness of NIC is very important for initial use, but we must
 have something better than TTY or CRT.  The Net is cheaper than the
 mails.  (Electrostatic hard-copy devices were briefly mentioned).
 Regarding new developments for AI symbolic processing, a plan hatched
 by Alan Kay is to have lots of processor, lots of core and a big
 switch with the capability of serving users in the Net.  It is to
 provide low cost core space (economics of processing are not known).
 This may become associated with some experimental hardware
 development facility since the desire is to be able to build new
 architecture in a reasonable amount of time.  It should be 10 to 100
 times faster than the PDP-10 with earliest delivery in '73.
 The speech effort is on the order of three million per year.  The
 concern now is to be able to tie together pieces at various sites for
 comparative evaluation.  The cross-testing can have an impact on the
 researcher, but everybody must maintain compatible interfaces.
 The climatology program is for predicting future long-range climate
 of the World that comes about by perturbations.  Various sites are
 involved at various levels and it is hard to get these people to big
 computers, to the data bases, and with each other.  The Network
 provides their total communication path with the I4.  Direct and
 effective use of the Network can be made without much more of an
 investment; the Rand/UCSB work is a good example.

Heafner [Page 29] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

               VII.  WEDNESDAY MORNING SESSION (5/19/71)
 This session began with discussion of file transfer protocol, led by
 Abhay Bhusan.  It was decided that the current file transfer protocol
 should be parsed into two pieces -- a data transfer protocol front-
 end that could be used for file transfer and other protocols, and the
 file mechanism protocol.  This problem was referred to the committee
 which met for the remainder of the day to specify the data transfer
 and file protocols.  An RFC will be forth-coming, describing these
 protocols.
 The data management group met in parallel Wednesday.  An RFC will be
 forthcoming on their results.

Heafner [Page 30] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

              VIII.  WEDNESDAY EVENING SESSION (5/19/71)
 The following information was summarized by Steve Crocker.
    Committees         Publication Date     Approval Date
 ICP - Postel               5/27                6/3
 File Transfer - Bhusan     6/7                 ---
 Data Mgmnt. - McKay       (7/21)               ---
 Socket Struc. - Metcalfe   6/22                ---
 Telnet - O'Sullivan        5/19                6/10
 Theory - Metcalfe          ---                 ---
 DRS - Heafner              6/1                 ---
 Graphics - Vezza          (7/18)               ---
 The following inputs were provided to Steve Crocker on implementation
 dates of NCP (RFC #107) and TELNET (RFC #158).
         Service Hosts             NCP + TELNET
           CCN                        7/1
           LL/67                      6/15
           SRI/NIC                   (6/18)
           MIT/MULTICS                7/1
           BBN/10X                     ?
           UCSB/75                    Up
 __Host__                NCP (RFC #107)          TELNET (RFC #158)
 UCLA/S7                      6/1                      6/15
 Rand                         Up                       6/15
 Utah                         Up                       6/15
 U. of Ill.                   7/1                      7/1
 Harvard                       ?                        ?
 MIT/DM                       5/25                     6/25
 The following inputs were provided to Steve Crocker on schedules for
 current and pending work.
      Users                          Tasks
      Mitre                 data management in progress
      Raytheon              data sharing (August)
      NBS                   PDP-11 via low-speed phone line
                            (July)

Heafner [Page 31] RFC 164 Minutes of Network Working Group Meeting May 1971

      BBN                   validation of resource notebook
                            (July 15)
      UCLA                  data store, retrieval, reduction
                            (July 1)
      DM/MULTICS/Harvard    graphics, file transfer (July 1)
      Ames/67               I4 simulator (July 15)
                            climate with UCSB (now)
                            climate with UCLA (July 1)
                            DRS (September)
                            SRI/NIC (August)
                            LL LISP (?)
      LL                    TX2 speech data
                            TX2 data transfer (now)
                            TSP compiler (September)
      U. of Ill.            remote use (July 1)
                            link to Paoli (July 1)

Miscellaneous Issues

 Alex McKenzie will generate the NCP functional document in one month
 as an experiment.
 Service documents to be sent to NIC include normal user documentation
 you would use at the site plus special conventions (if any) for
 remote users.  Read RFC #115 and RFC #118.

NWG Organization

 There is some concern over the size of the NWG.  Its functions and
 reorganization were discussed.  Nothing definitive resulted
 immediately.  It was suggested by Steve Crocker that another NWG
 meeting would be held in August.
 Dr. Roberts and Steve Crocker created a steering committee to examine
 this and other problems.  More will be said about the steering
 committee by Steve Crocker, at a later date.
     [ This RFC was put into machine readable form for entry ]
     [ into the online RFC archives by Nicholas Barnes 08/99 ]

Heafner [Page 32]

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