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rfc:rfc1211

Network Working Group A. Westine Request for Comments: 1211 J. Postel

                                                                   ISI
                                                            March 1991
        Problems with the Maintenance of Large Mailing Lists

Status of this Memo

 This RFC discusses problems with maintaining large mailing lists,
 especially the processing of error reports.  This memo provides
 information for the Internet community.  It does not specify an
 Internet standard.  Distribution of this memo is unlimited.

Table of Contents

 1.   Introduction..............................................   1
 2.   Discussion................................................   1
 3.   Typical Problems..........................................   3
 3.1. Misdirected Error Reports.................................   3
 3.2. Sublists..................................................   3
 3.3. Misdirected Requests......................................   5
 3.4. Misdirected Messages......................................   5
 4.   Summary...................................................   5
 APPENDIX A - I used to be on the List..........................   6
 APPENDIX B - Changing Addresses and Sublists...................   8
 APPENDIX C - Sublists and Other Protocol Worlds................   9
 APPENDIX D - Errors from Hidden Hosts..........................  10
 APPENDIX E - No Postmaster.....................................  12
 APPENDIX F - Examples of Error Messages........................  14
 5.   Security Considerations...................................  53
 6.   Authors' Addresses........................................  54

1. Introduction

 Maintaining large mailing lists, especially the processing of error
 reports, poses many problems.  Most of the examples come from the
 experience of managing the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)
 mailing list.  Many examples are presented in this memo.  Most of the
 specific problems shown have already been corrected.

2. Discussion

 At USC - Information Sciences Institute (ISI) we maintain mailing
 lists for the Internet Research Groups, the IETF, and other Internet
 groups; about 25 lists altogether.  We receive about 400 messages a
 month requesting additions or deletions to these lists.  There are

Westine & Postel [Page 1] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

 about 20 messages a day requesting changes to the lists.
 We also receive about 300 error messages a month due to mail delivery
 problems.  Many of these are duplicates, but the net result is that
 about 10 cases per day need to be investigated.
 Many of the error reports are for "soft errors", primarily delayed
 delivery notices, such as "not delivered for 2 days, will try for 3
 more days".  These just waste the list maintainer's time and are
 otherwise ignored.  This is especially wasteful when such messages
 are repeated every day.  However, if the same host is a cause of such
 messages for many days in a row, the list maintainer may investigate.
 Please note that ignoring the soft errors is not always easy, since
 error messages often contain error reports on several mailboxes,
 requiring the error message to be read carefully to pick out the hard
 errors.
 The error reports that indicate hard errors, such as "no such user"
 require the list maintainer to take action.  In many cases the
 appropriate action is to simply delete the user mailbox from the
 list.  However, if the mailbox in question is someone known to be
 active as a working group chair, or such, further investigation is
 necessary.  The more general case of "no such host" may be a
 temporary condition, but if it continues for several days it must be
 investigated.
 Since the error conditions do not have standardized names (for
 example, "no such user" vs. "user unknown") it is sometimes difficult
 to understand whether a soft or hard error is being reported, and
 what one should do about it.  For example, what does "Can't Find Mail
 Center!" mean, or what should one do about "mailll:%MAIL-E-OPENOUT,
 error opening SYS$USER2:[STGEORGE.LONGMAIL]MAIL$00040093BE236612.MAI;
 as outputI)"?
 The first step in investigating a problem with a user mailbox is to
 see if it is on the list.  If so, the next step is to see if there
 really is a problem with it.  This is done by using the SMTP VRFY and
 EXPN features, Finger, or Whois.  This often develops information
 suggesting that the user has recently changed his address.  This has
 to be confirmed through an exchange of messages (with the postmaster)
 and then the mailing list must be updated.
 If the user is not on the list, then it is likely the mail is sent
 via an exploder or sublist.  So the investigation focuses on finding
 which exploder may be involved, usually this is found by looking at
 the path (from the received lines) of the error report.  The exploder
 that is the source of the error can sometimes be checked using the

Westine & Postel [Page 2] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

 SMTP EXPN feature.  Then the postmaster is notified.
 If the error report is about a host being unknown, the programs
 "whathost", "dig", "ping", and "traceroute" may be used to find the
 problem.  However, getting the problem fixed may require
 communication with host and domain administrators.
 What to do if problems can't be resolved: Delete the offending entry
 from the list that may eventually cause the following response: "I
 used to be on the ietf list, how come I am not getting the messages
 any more?" (See Appendix A.)

3. Typical Problems

 In this section we discuss typical and frequent problems that occur
 with large mailing lists.

3.1 Misdirected Error Reports

 The most frequent problem is that error reports are sent to the
 author of the message rather than the list owner.  One way this can
 happen is when there is trouble with the author's host not connecting
 to another host along the route before it reaches ISI where the
 mailing list is.
 At ISI the SMTP "from" information is added when the message is
 distributed to the list so that hosts following the SMTP protocol
 will send their error reports to the list owner.  However, not all
 hosts do this properly.
 Another problem is that some machines do not pay attention to the
 SMTP information about where to send error reports.

3.2 Sublists

 What is a sublist?  It is a mailbox with an alias-name that expands
 to a mailing-list or group of recipients.  There are many sublists on
 our mailing lists.
 When a user requests that a mailbox be added to a list that looks
 like an exploder, the following message is sent:
    We ask that all list maintainters of exploder mailboxes (an
    alias-name that expands to a mailing-list or group of recipients)
    set up some sort of ownership at their site, for their list.  What
    this means is, is any mailbox on your list is invalid, the error
    message will go to you (the list owner), and you can delete that
    mailbox from your list.

Westine & Postel [Page 3] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

    An example of an entry in your aliases file would be:
       owner-ietf-local:  stev@vax.ftp.com,
          (or your list maintainer/postmaster)
 It appears that few people understand the concept of list ownership,
 or they do not set it up correctly.  There is ample evidence of
 problems in this area.
 When investigating "user unknown" messages it is often the case that
 the user is not individually listed on our list.  The next step is to
 check received lines and hunt for an exploder list with a host
 similar to the one that the error came from or points to.  At that
 point we attempt to use SMTP EXPN or VRFY to check that the user is
 on a sublist.  Since many hosts do not implement EXPN or VRFY, the
 result of our check is inconclusive.  We then contact the list
 maintainer and ask him to delete the invalid mailbox if it is on his
 sublist.
 Another problem occurs when someone on a sublist wants to change the
 name of his mailbox.  We look through the main list to make the
 correction and if that mailbox is not on the list we check the
 received lines and look for clues to determine which host this user
 may be on.  More than likely it is a sublist.  (See Appendix B.)
 When the mailbox is in another protocol world (like UUCP or BITNET)
 there are often problems with the handling and direction of error
 reports. (See Appendix C.)
 Sometimes we are unable to find the addresses reported in the error
 message on the mailing list in question.  In such a case we check the
 mailing list for a host name also named in the received lines of a
 message in error.  If we find a match then we look for an exploder on
 that host and expand the sublist there to see if the mailbox in
 question is on that sublist.  (See Appendix D.)
 At the time a sublist is entered into our list we record the name of
 the requestor and consider him the sublist owner.  As people change
 roles or companies this contact sometimes fails, in that case we fall
 back to contacting the postmaster.  However, not every site has a
 "postmaster" mailbox. (See Appendix E.)
 Most users send their requests and changes to the IETF-Request
 mailbox, when they are on, in fact, a sublist, usually at their own
 company.  This creates a problem for us trying to determine which
 exploder they're on.

Westine & Postel [Page 4] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

 In this case, the request message is forwarded to the sublist owner
 so he can make changes to his list.  However, sometimes hosts may be
 somewhat similar in name (from the same organization, but in a
 different department, in a different building, off campus, etc.) and
 it's hard to know if this person should really be on that particular
 sublist, or listed individually.  Occasionally, we examine the main
 file to see if there are individual addresses that could be
 incorporated in a sublist.

3.3 Misdirected Requests

 Some users don't know that mailing lists usually have a "request"
 mailbox, so they mistakenly send their requests to the main list.
 When this happens, several people will resend the request to the list
 maintainer and then want to know if the request was completed.

3.4 Misdirected Messages

 There are also messages that go to the request mailbox when they are
 intended for the main list.  These messages get forwarded to the main
 list and a message is sent to the user notifying him of the
 correction and the proper way to address his message.

4. Summary

 Running a mailing list should be easy, and with small lists it is.
 The number of changes and errors are small and infrequent.  But when
 lists get large and traffic gets heavy, the number of changes and
 errors grow to many a day.  The level of effort to manage a mailing
 list of substantial size and use becomes significant.
 An additional problem is the creativity shown by mail program
 developers in inventing numerous different error reports.  We present
 a large sample of such messages in Appendix F.  We hope that these
 examples will be of help to other mailing list maintainers.
 Our experience with maintaining large lists suggests the following:
 Users:  Please be considerate and try to work problems out locally.
 Sublist owners:  Please do everything you can to get the error
 messages related to your sublist to go to you.  Please try to get
 users on your system to talk to you about additions and deletions.

Westine & Postel [Page 5] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

                              APPENDIX A

A.1. Inquiry Message From User Regarding His Mailbox

 Date: Tue, 6 Nov 90 03:02:09 PST
 From: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2, DTN: 830 4682"
       <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>
 To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
 Subject: dist list
 Please will you check that I have not been deleted from this
 distribution list.
 My email address is : bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
 Thanks
 Stewart

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A.2. Message To User - His Mailbox Was Re-added

 To: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2,
     DTN: 830 4682" <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>
 cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
 Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
 Subject: Re: dist list
 In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 06 Nov 90 03:02:09 -0800.
              <9011061056.AA11777@decpa.pa.dec.com>
 Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 13:54:23 PST
 From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
 Hi Stewart,
 > Please will you check that I have not been deleted from this
 > distribution. list.
 >
 > My email address is:  bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
         I readded you to the list.
  1. -Ann

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Westine & Postel [Page 6] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

A.3. User Name Readded and It Bounced

 Date:    Tue, 06 Nov 90 17:25:15 -0800
 From:    MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 To:      westine@ISI.EDU
 Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "janus",

          during mail delivery to <JANUS::BRYANT>.
          Remote error code is 0x7e81d2, message is:
 %MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport NM
          (can't decypher error code)
 550 <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>... User unknown
  1. —- Recipients of this delivery —–

bryant@janus.enet.dec.com (bounced)

  1. —- Unsent message follows —–

Received: by decpa.pa.dec.com; id AA21747; Tue, 6 Nov 90 13:54:38

 Received: from LOCALHOST by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
          id <AA24660>; Tue, 6 Nov 90 13:54:25 -0800
 To: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2,
      DTN: 830 4682" <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>
 Cc: ietf-request@venera.isi.edu
 Reply-To: westine@venera.isi.edu
 Subject: Re: dist list
 In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 06 Nov 90 03:02:09 -0800.
       <9011061056.AA11777@decpa.pa.dec.com>
 Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 13:54:23 PST
 From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
 Hi Stewart,
 > Please will you check that I have not been deleted from this
 > distribution list.
 >
 > My email address is
 >
 > bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
 I readded you to the list.
  1. -Ann

Westine & Postel [Page 7] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

                             APPENDIX B

In this example, the old mailbox "kent@ssbell.IMD.Sterling.COM" was to be deleted and the new mailbox "kent@sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM" was to be added. However, when checking the mailing list the old address was not found. Further checking for anything that resembled the hostname still did not turn up anything. Then checking the full header information of the sender's message showed that the message came through UUNET.UU.NET. There is a sublist on UUNET called "post-ietf@UUNET.UU.NET". By using the SMTP feature EXPN on the sublist the mailbox was found in the form "ssbell!kent". Finally, a message was sent to the postmaster at UUNET and asked him to delete the mailbox.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

B.1. Error Report

 Date:    Mon, 22 Oct 90 14:05:38 -0500
 From:    kent@ssbell.IMD.Sterling.COM (Kent Landfield)
 To:      ietf-request@ISI.EDU
 Subject: E-mail address change
 Hello,
 I am currently receiving ietf related email at
 kent@ssbell.IMD.Sterling.COM.  I am moving to sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM
 as the ssbell system is going away.  Could you please change my
 address to kent@sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM so that I can stay on the
 list ? Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

B.2. Message Sent to Postmaster

 To: postmaster@uunet.uu.net
 Subject: Address -  <ssbell!kent>
 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 90 13:44:24 PDT
 From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
 Hi,
 Please delete the mailbox ssbell!kent from the "post-ietf" list.  I
 will add his new address "kent@sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM" directly to
 the ietf list.  Thanks. Ann

Westine & Postel [Page 8] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

                            APPENDIX C

Another problem comes up when a sublist happens to be located in another protocol world such as BITNET or UUCP and that mail is forwarded through a mail relay. Experience shows that proper implementation of the list ownership concept is even less likely.

SIGNET is a host in the UUCP world receiving mail forwarded through the mail relay THINK.COM.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

C.1. Error Report

 To: owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu
 Date:    Fri, 05 Oct 90 23:45:26 -0400
 From:    uucp@Think.COM
 Subject: Warning From uucp
 We have been unable to contact machine 'signet' since you
 queued your job.
         mail signet!ietf-interest    (Date 10/04)
 Attempts will continue for a few more days.
         Sincerely,
         early-bird!uucp

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

C.2. Message Sent to Postmaster

 To: postmaster@think.com
 Subject: unable to contact machine 'signet'
 Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 90 09:42:54 PDT
 From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
 Hi,
 We have a mailbox on the ietf list that gets relayed through your
 host THINK.COM. We will have to delete this mailbox if a connection
 cannot be corrected.   Thanks, Ann

Westine & Postel [Page 9] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

                             APPENDIX D

Sometimes, the addresses reported in error can't be found on the IETF list. In this example, "GATORCORP" is not on the IETF list. In checking the received lines there is a host called VITALINK.COM. We have an exploder on our list at VITALINK called "ietf- interest@vitalink.com". The program DIG shows that VITALINK.COM MXs to UUNET.UU.NET. Since VITALINK is not directly on the Internet the EXPN and VRFY features of SMTP don't apply, the sublist on VITALINK can't be checked. However, there are enough clues to make an educated guess that the mailboxes on the host GATORCORP are on the exploder sublist at VITALINK. In this situation a message was sent to the Postmaster of VITALINK.COM to ask him to delete the invalid addresses from his sublist.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.1. Error Report

 Return-Path: vitam6!MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.UU.NET
 Received-Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 14:34:51 PST
 Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4)
         id <AA16502>; Wed, 7 Nov 90 14:34:51 PST
 Posted-Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 13:54:08 -0800
 Received: from UUNET.UU.NET by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
         id <AA27149>; Wed, 7 Nov 90 14:34:34 -0800
 Received: from vitam6.UUCP by uunet.uu.net (5.61/1.14) with UUCP
         id AA12926; Wed, 7 Nov 90 17:34:28 -0500
 Received: by vitam6.ENG.Vitalink.COM (5.61/1.35)
         id AC03235; Wed, 7 Nov 90 13:54:08 -0800
 Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 13:54:08 -0800
 From: vitam6!MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.UU.NET (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
 To: uunet!venera.isi.edu!owner-ietf@uunet.UU.NET
 To: uunet!venera.isi.edu!owner-ietf@uunet.UU.NET
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–
 550 andrew_greenfield.safari@gatorcorp,
     melinda_le_baron.safari@gatorcorp...Host unknown

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Westine & Postel [Page 10] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

D.2. Message Sent to Postmaster

 To: postmaster@vitalink.com
 Cc: westine@ISI.EDU
 Subject: andrew_greenfield.safari@gatorcorp,
          melinda_le_baron.safari@gatorcorp... Host unknown
 Reply-To: westine@ISI.EDU
 Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 15:30:24 PST
 From: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU>
 Hi,
 We have an exploder mailbox on the IETF list called
 "ietf-interest@vitalink.com".  I'm not sure, but I think the
 following addresses may be on that list.  Please look into this
 "host unknown" problem.  If these addresses need to be deleted,
 please do so.
 Thanks,
 Ann

Westine & Postel [Page 11] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

                             APPENDIX E

Every host on the Internet that processes mail is required to have a "postmaster" mailbox to receive error reports and trouble inquiries. In this case, the "postmaster" mailbox was not recognized.

E.1. Message Sent to IETF-Request

 To:       (ietf-request@venera.isi.edu)
 From:     Caralyn Brown (CBROWN@ENR)
 Date:     10 Jan 91  8:24 AM
 Subject:  please remove me from this list
 Please remove me from this list.  I'm changing companies and I'd like
 to keep the mailbox from getting out of hand.  If it's not too much
 trouble, could you just send me a confirmation that I was deleted?
 Thanks.
 caralyn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

E.2. Message Sent to Postmaster

 To: postmaster@list.prime.com
 Cc: CBROWN@enr.prime.com, ietf-request@venera.isi.edu
 Subject: Please delete from "ietf@list.prime.com" - Carolyn Brown
 Reply-To: westine@venera.isi.edu
 Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 09:50:15 PST
 From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
 Hi,
 Please delete Carolyn from your sublist.   We do not have her address
 listed individually on the main IETF list.
 Thanks, Ann

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Westine & Postel [Page 12] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

E.3. Error Report

 From: postmaster-request@List.Prime.COM (List Service version
       1.0.x463)
 Subject: returned mail
 Message-Type: Return
 To: <westine@ISI.EDU>
 Your mail addressed to "postmaster" could not be processed: There is
 no mailing list named "postmaster" at this site.
 For help, send to help@List.Prime.COM; to receive an index of
 available lists, send to index@List.Prime.COM; to reach a List
 Administrator, send to admin@List.Prime.COM.

Westine & Postel [Page 13] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

              APPENDIX F - Examples of Error Messages

F.1. Delayed Delivery Notices

 From: MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Connection timed out during user
          open with uiucdcsm-uiuc-dcs-net.cs.uiuc.edu
 Posted-Date: Fri, 4 Jan 91 12:46:51 -0800
 Received: by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
         id <AA08435>; Fri, 4 Jan 91 12:46:51 -0800
 To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

»> RCPT To:laird@BBN.COM

 <<< 550 (USER) Unknown user name in "laird@BBN.COM"
 550 laird@BBN.COM... User unknown
 451 avri@CLEARPOINT.COM... reply: read error
 avri@CLEARPOINT.COM... reply: read error
 421 dockmaster.ncsc.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
     user open with DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL
 421 va.nkw.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
     user open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
 421 nsl.dec.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
     open with jove.pa.dec.com
 451 drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... timeout waiting for input
     drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... timeout waiting for input
 451 drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... reply: read error
     drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... reply: read error
 421 sccgate.scc.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
     user open with sccgate.scc.com
 421 a.isi.edu.tcp... Deferred: Connection refused by a.ISI.EDU
 421 cs.ucl.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
     open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
 421 oasys.dt.navy.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
     user open with oasys.dt.navy.mil
 421 peocu1.navy.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
     open with PEOCU1.NAVY.MIL
 421 enh.nist.gov.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
     open with enh.nist.gov
 421 mickey.imsd.contel.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection refused by
     MICKEY.IMSD.CONTEL.COM
 421 uv4.eglin.af.mil.tcp..Deferred: Connection timed out during user
     open with uv6.eglin.af.mil
 421 ima.isc.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
     open with ima.ima.isc.com
 421 huachuca-emh8.army.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection refused by
     HUACHUCA-EMH8.ARMY.MIL
 421 vaxa.nerc-keyworth.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out

Westine & Postel [Page 14] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

     during user open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
 421 gdr.bath.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
     open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
 421 ccint1.rsre.mod.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
     user open with ccint1.rsre.mod.uk
 550 m_ellison@TOOK.LKG.DEC.COM... Host unknown
 421 hqafsc-vax.af.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
     user open with HQAFSC-VAX.AF.MIL
 421 nic.nordu.net.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
     open with nic.nordu.net
 421 aedc-vax.af.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
     open with AEDC-VAX.AF.MIL
 421 letterkenn-emh1.army.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out
     during user open with LETTERKENN-EMH1.ARMY.MIL
 421 dumle.kommhuset.se.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during
     user open with sunic.sunet.se
 421 cis.uab.edu.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
     open with cisa.CIS.UAB.EDU
 421 server.af.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
     open with server.af.mil
 421 issun3.stc.nl.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
     open with issun3.stc.nl
 421 cs.uiuc.edu.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user
     open with uiucdcsm-uiuc-dcs-net.cs.uiuc.edu
  1. ————

F.2. Failed Mail

 Date:     Tue, 30 Oct 90 5:00:40 EST
 From: BBN Mail System (MMDF) <mmdf@BBN.COM>
 Sender: mmdf@BBN.COM
 Subject:  Failed mail  (msg.aa09055)
 To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
 After 12 days (276 hours), your message could not be fully delivered.
 It failed to be received by the following address(es):
     mfidelma@cc5.bbn.com (host: cc5.bbn.com) (queue: smtp)
 Problems usually are due to service interruptions at the receiving
 machine.  Less often, they are caused by the communication system.

Westine & Postel [Page 15] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

F.3. Waiting Mail

 To: RELAY Mail System (MMDF) <mmdf@RELAY.CS.NET>
 Cc: owner-ietf <@RELAY.CS.NET:owner-ietf@VENERA.ISI.EDU>
 Reply-To: westine@ISI.EDU
 Subject: Re: Waiting mail (msg.aa00720)
 In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 02 Oct 90 07:45:14 -0400.
              <9010021201.AA06288@venera.isi.edu>
 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 90 10:11:03 PDT
 From: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU>
 > After 5 days (105 hours), your message has not yet been
 > fully delivered.  Attempts to deliver the message will continue
 > for 2 more days.  No further action is required by you.
 >
 > Delivery attempts are still pending for the following address(es):
 >
 >       @zix.gmd.dbp.de:weidenhammer@vax.hmi.dbp.de
 >       (host: zix.gmd.dbp.de)(queue: dfn)
 >
 > Problems usually are due to service interruptions at the receiving
 > machine.  Less often, they are caused by the communication system.

F.4. What Started Out as a Sublist with No Active Users

 a.  Error Report
 Date: Tue, 4 Sep 90 22:13:12 +0200
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@inria.inria.fr (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
 To: owner-ietf
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

While talking to mailhost.Gipsi.FR:

 >>> RCPT To:<ietf@GIPSI.FR>
 <<< 550 <ietf@GIPSI.FR>... User unknown
 550 <ietf@GIPSI.FR>... User unknown
  1. ———

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Westine & Postel [Page 16] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

 b.  Message Sent to Postmaster
 TO:  Postmaster@gisi.gipsi.fr
 Subject: 550 <ietf@GIPSI.FR>... User unknown
 Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
 Date: Tue, 11 Sep 90 09:56:20 PDT
 From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
 Hi,
 I have received numerous error messages like this for over a week.
 There appears to be a mailbox on your exploder that is invalid,
 please delete it.
 Thanks, --Ann

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 c.  Reply From Postmaster
 From: edmonde@ubu.gipsi.fr (Edmonde Duteurtre)
 To: westine
 In-Reply-To: Ann Westine's message of Tue,
              11 Sep 90 09:56:20 PDT
 <9009111656.AA19730@venera.isi.edu>
 Subject: 550 <ietf@GIPSI.FR>... User unknown
 Hello
 On our site, the bind@gipsi.fr, snmp@gipsi.fr, ietf@gipsi.fr and the
 nameddroppers@gipsi.fr mailed only one person: prindevi@gipsi.fr but
 this person has leaved our company, and you should cancel this
 addresses.
 I think we get enough informations through the news.  I think you
 should cancel us (ietf@Gipsi.FR) on the mailing list ietf.

Westine & Postel [Page 17] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

F.5. Sublists without local ownership

 In this error message there was not much to go on except the
 words IETF and the name of the host from where the mailer-daemon
 sent the error.  Using that clue the mailing list was searched for
 that host name (SATURN).  It was a sublist. It appears that there is
 something internally wrong with the sublist and this error should
 have gone to the postmaster or owner of the IETF@SATURN.ACC.COM list
 instead of the IETF owner.  A message was sent to the postmaster.  No
 reply was received, but the condition was fixed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 a.  Error Report
 Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 14:42:57 EDT
 From: MAILER-DAEMON%saturn.ACC.COM@salt.acc.com (Mail Delivery
                                                  Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 13
 To: <owner-ietf@ISI.EDU>
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

/p/news/ietf/21770: Permission denied

 554 "| /usr/local/news -s ietf"... unknown mailer error 13

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 b. Message Sent to Postmaster
 To: Postmaster@saturn.acc.com
 cc: ietf-request
 Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
 Subject: 554 "| /usr/local/news -s ietf"
     ... unknown mailer error 13
 In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 03 Oct 90 14:42:57 -0400.
       <9010031842.AA01601@saturn.acc.com>
 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 90 10:53:02 PDT
 From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
 Hi,
 Please fix the problem with the following mailbox
 "ietf@SATURN.ACC.COM".
 Thanks, Ann

Westine & Postel [Page 18] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

F.6. Repetitive Error Every Couple of Months from Same Host

 a.  Message Dated August 90
 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 90 09:21:26 -0700
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
 To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object

 (permanent failure)
 554 <netrix::gillin>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
   answer from name server)
  1. —- Recipients of this delivery —–

<erlang::chiu> (sent)

 <netrix::gillin> (bounced)
 <erlang::rama> (sent)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 b.  Message Dated October 90
 Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 05:02:53 -0800
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
 To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",

         during mail delivery to <ERLANG::CHIU>.
         Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is:
 %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU
 -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown
 554 <erlang::chiu>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
   answer from name server)
  1. —- Recipients of this delivery —–

<erlang::chiu> (bounced)

 <netrix::gillin> (sent)
 <erlang::rama> (sent)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Westine & Postel [Page 19] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

 c.  Message Dated December 90
 Date: Sun, 16 Dec 90 21:40:47 -0800
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
 To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object

 (permanent failure)
 554 <bansal@NETRIX.ENET.DEC.COM>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
 answer from name server)
  1. —- Recipients of this delivery —–
 <bansal@NETRIX.ENET.DEC.COM> (bounced)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 d.  Message Dated December 90
 Date: Sun, 16 Dec 90 23:01:21 -0800
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
 To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object

 (permanent failure)
 554 <gillin%netrix.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM>... 550 Host unknown
 (Authoritative answer from name server)
  1. —- Recipients of this delivery —–
 <mogul@DECWRL.DEC.COM> (sent)
 mogul@acetes (sent)
 <gillin%netrix.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM> (bounced)
 <chiu%erlang.dec@DECWRL.DEC.COM> (sent)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Westine & Postel [Page 20] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

 e.  Message Dated January 91
 Date: Sun, 6 Jan 91 17:05:53 -0800
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
 To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "bigfut",

   during mail delivery to <BIGFUT::CALLON>.
   Remote error code is 0x7e81fa, message is:(can't decypher error
   code)
 550 <Callon@BIGFUT.ENET.DEC.COM>... User unknown

F.7. Host Unknown or Sublist

 The address "lucb-ml@OPUS" is not an Internet style domain name. The
 exploder ietf@CS.McGILL.CA has this address on its sublist, and
 CSA.McGILL.CA does not recognize this host.  (This error should have
 gone to the sublist owner at CS.MCGILL.CA).
 Date: Tue, 9 Oct 90 19:45:14 -0400
 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem  <MAILER-DAEMON@oliver.cs.mcgill.ca>
 Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
 To: <owner-ietf@ISI.EDU>
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

550 "Luc Boulianne" <lucb-ml@opus>… Host unknown

F.8. "HOST UNKNOWN" and the Host Really Is Known

 Usually a "host unknown" report is not acted on unless it is repeated
 over a period of several days.  In many cases the hosts really do
 exist, but they're just down for a couple of days, or there are
 network problems reaching it (or it's name serrver).
 Date: Fri, 2 Nov 90 08:45:56 -0800
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
 To: owner-los-nettos@ISI.EDU
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

550 nrc.com.tcp… 550 Host unknown

   550 IHM@NRC.COM... Host unknown

Westine & Postel [Page 21] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 WHATHOST CHECK
         westine 28%  whathost nrc.com
         Host: nrc.com  ==>  129.216.200.51
         westine 82% whathost 129.216.200.51
         Host: aztec.NRC.COM  ==>  129.216.200.51

F.9. Host Unknown and MXed to Another Host.

 DNS says AMES will forward mail for ADAPT, but mailer at AMES says
 ADAPT is unknown.  Should ask postmaster at AMES to fix either mailer
 or DNS data.
 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 90 09:39:35 PST
 From: unet!Mailer-Daemon@ames.arc.nasa.gov
 Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
 To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

bad system name: ADAPT

 uux failed ( 68 )
 550 george@ADAPT.NET.COM... Host unknown

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 westine 86% dig adapt.net.com any
 ; <<>> DiG <<>> adapt.net.com any
 ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 6
 ;; flags: qr aa rd ra  Ques: 1, Ans: 2, Auth: 0, Addit: 2
 ;; QUESTIONS:
 ;;      adapt.net.com, type = ANY, class = IN
 ;; ANSWERS:
 adapt.net.com   IN  MX  10 ames.arc.nasa.gov   ; 84029
 adapt.net.com   IN  MX  20 tymix.tymnet.com    ; 84029
 ;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS:
 ames.arc.nasa.gov       IN  A   128.102.18.3   ; 158777
 tymix.tymnet.com        IN  A   131.146.2.1    ; 86400

Westine & Postel [Page 22] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

F.10. User Unknown

 Most "User Unknown" error messages listed individually on the main
 list get deleted.  Those on a sublist, require a message to the
 postmaster or list maintainer.  They are asked to delete the
 invalid user mailbox from their local list.

F.10.1. Add User but Address Fails

 This is a case where the recipient was checking to see if his mailbox
 was already on the list and if not to readd him.  He was readded to
 the list.  A "user unknown" error message was received on the
 confirming message that was sent notifying recipient that he had been
 added.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 a.  Message Sent to User And Postmaster
 To: postmaster@janus.enet.decl.com, postmaster@decwrl.dec.com
 Cc: westine, bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
 Subject: RE: <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>
 Date: Wed, 07 Nov 90 10:15:40 PST
 From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
 Hi Stewart and Postmaster,
 I readded your name to the IETF list but there seems to be problems
 with connections to DECnet hosts right now.  I have seen lots of
 errors like this lately.  Postmaster, please check into this.  JANUS
 is not the only host with an error, there are other hosts like this
 in trouble.
 For example.
     From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
     Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
     To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",

              during mail delivery to <ERLANG::CHIU>.
              Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is:
     %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU
     -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown
     554 <erlang::chiu>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer

Westine & Postel [Page 23] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

            from name server)
  1. —- Recipients of this delivery —–

<erlang::chiu> (bounced)

      <netrix::gillin> (sent)
      <erlang::rama> (sent)
              -------
     Thank you, Ann
          To: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2,
              DTN: 830 4682" <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>
          Cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
          Subject: Re: dist list
          In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 06 Nov 90 03:02:09 0800.
                     <9011061056.AA11777@decpa.pa.dec.com>
          Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 13:54:23 PST
          From: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU>
          Hi Stewart,
          > Please will you check that I have not been deleted
          > from this distribution list.
          >
          > My email address is > bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
       I readded you to the list.  Thanks, Ann
  1. —— Forwarded Message
          Date:    Tue, 06 Nov 90 17:25:15 -0800
          From:    MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com
          To:      westine@ISI.EDU
          Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–
          mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "janus",
                  during mail delivery to <JANUS::BRYANT>.
                  Remote error code is 0x7e81d2, message is:
          %MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport NM
                  (can't decypher error code)
             550 <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>... User unknown
  1. —- Recipients of this delivery —–

bryant@janus.enet.dec.com (bounced)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Westine & Postel [Page 24] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

b. Message From Postmaster

 Return-path: vixie@wrl.dec.com
 Date:    Wed, 07 Nov 90 16:24:37 PST
 To:      westine@ISI.EDU
 cc:      postmaster@janus.enet.dec.com, postmaster@wrl.dec.com,
          bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
 Subject: Re: <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>
 From:    Paul A Vixie <vixie@wrl.dec.com>
 Anne,
 This was a transient.  Please let me know if any other .enet.dec.com
 nodes are still unreachable.
 Paul

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

c. Another Message to Postmaster

 To: Paul A Vixie <vixie@wrl.dec.com>
 cc: postmaster@janus.enet.dec.com, postmaster@wrl.dec.com,
     bryant@janus.enet.dec.com
 Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
 Subject: Re: <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>
 In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 07 Nov 90 16:24:37 -0800.
     <9011080024.AA28353@volition.pa.dec.com>
 Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 11:23:39 PST
 From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
 Hi Paul,
 There are a few other error message that I received last week and
 they seem to reoccur every couple of months.  Here is an example.
 What does this error mean?
 Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 05:02:53 -0800
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
 To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",

         during mail delivery to <ERLANG::CHIU>.
         Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is:
 %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU
 -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown

Westine & Postel [Page 25] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

 554 <erlang::chiu>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
   answer from name server)
  1. —- Recipients of this delivery —–

<erlang::chiu> (bounced)

 <netrix::gillin> (sent)
 <erlang::rama> (sent)
 <netrix::gillin> (sent)
 <erlang::rama> (sent)
  1. ———

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

d. Message From Postmaster

Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 17:10:02 PST To: westine@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: bryant@janus.enet.dec.com From: Paul A Vixie vixie@wrl.dec.com

Anne,

This error:

  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",

              during mail delivery to <ERLANG::CHIU>.
              Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is:
      %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU
      -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown
      554 <erlang::chiu>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
                        answer from name server)

…means that the person on ERLANG:: has forwarded their mail to a system that ERLANG does not know about. Decnet mail is not store-and- forward, so decwrl (as smtp-to-decnet gateway) sees the end-system error. Trying to be helpful, it sends it back to you.

My advice is to delete any addresses you have trouble with, if they are in the .enet.dec.com subdomain.

paul

Westine & Postel [Page 26] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

F.10.2. No Such User

 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 18:05 CDT
 From: PMDF Mail Server <Postmaster@crcvms.unl.edu>
 Subject: Undeliverable mail
 To: westine@ISI.EDU
 The message could not be delivered to:
 Addressee: gale
 Reason:
   %MAIL-E-NOSUCHUSR, no such user GALE at node CRCVMS

F.11. No Transcript

 Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 13:21:03 -0700
 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Host Name Lookup Failure
 To: owner-ietf
 To: owner-ietf
 To: westine
  1. ————-

<text deleted>

F.12. Looping - Too Many Hops

 Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:59 PDT
 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@jessica.stanford.edu>
 Subject: Returned mail: Unable to deliver mail
 To:<@jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu,
   @jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu,
   @jessica.stanford.edu:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

554 sendall: too many hops (17 max)

 Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU
    (5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09128; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:36 PDT
 Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu
    (5.59/25-eef) id AA17687; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:31 PDT
 Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU
    (5.59/inc-1.0)id AA09124; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:28 PDT
 Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu

Westine & Postel [Page 27] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

    (5.59/25-eef) id AA17674; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:22 PDT
 Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU
    (5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09120; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:19 PDT
 Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu
    (5.59/25-eef) id AA17658; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:13 PDT
 Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU
    (5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09116; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:11 PDT
 Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu
    (5.59/25-eef) id AA17645; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:05 PDT
 Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU
    (5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09112; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:03 PDT
 Received: from VENERA.ISI.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu
    (5.59/25-eef) id AA17625;
 Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:07:50 PDT
 Received: by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
         id <AA29996>; Wed, 7 Nov 90 15:45:49 -0800
 Received-Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 15:45:45 -0800
 Received: from NRI.RESTON.VA.US by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
         id <AA29992>; Wed, 7 Nov 90 15:45:45 -0800
 Received: from nri by NRI.NRI.Reston.VA.US id aa13139;7 Nov 90 18:26
 To: Frank Kastenholz <kasten%europa.interlan.com@relay.cs.net>
 Cc: ietf@venera.isi.edu
 Subject: Re: IETF mailing list
 Date: Wed, 07 Nov 90 18:26:53 -0500
 From: vcerf@NRI.Reston.VA.US

F.13. No Postmaster

 a.  Error Message
 Date: Mon, 5 Nov 90 18:40:58 EST
 From: Mailer-Daemon@osi.ncsl.nist.gov
 Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
 To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–
 421 osi3: Host osi3 is down
 550 Postmaster... User unknown

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Westine & Postel [Page 28] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

 b.  Checking Hostname and Address
 westine 37% dig osi3.ncsl.nist.gov any
 ;; QUESTIONS:
 ;;      osi3.ncsl.nist.gov, type = ANY, class = IN
 ;; ANSWERS:
 osi3.ncsl.nist.gov      IN      A       129.6.48.108    ; 86400
 osi3.ncsl.nist.gov      IN      A       129.6.51.1      ; 86400

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 c.  Checking For Users
 westine 49% mconnect OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV
 connecting to host OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV (0x6c300681), port 0x1900
 connection open
 220 osi3.ncsl.nist.gov sendmail 4.0/NIST(rbj/dougm) ready at
   Thu, 8 Nov 90 13:58:49 EST
 expn ietf
 250-Dale Walters <walters>
 250-Richard Colella <colella@emu.ncsl.nist.gov>
 250 Doug Montgomery <dougm@warthog.ncsl.nist.gov>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 d.  Checking For Administrators
 westine 44% whois osi3.ncsl.nist.gov
 National Bureau of Standards (ICST-OSI3)
    Hostname: OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV
    Nicknames: OSI3.ICST.NBS.GOV,ICST-OSI3.ARPA
    Address: 129.6.48.108
    System: SUN-3/160 running UNIX
    Coordinator:
       Montgomery, Douglas C.  (DCM5)  dougm@OSI.NCSL.NIST.GOV
       (301) 975-3630
    Record last updated on 17-May-89.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Westine & Postel [Page 29] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

 e.  Message Sent to Coordinator
 From westine@venera.isi.edu Thu Nov  8 13:58:40 1990
 Posted-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 10:59:30 PST
 To: dougm@osi.ncsl.nist.gov
 Cc: westine@venera.isi.edu
 Subject: RE:  421 osi3: Host osi3 is down
     550 Postmaster... User unknown
 Reply-To: westine@venera.isi.edu
 Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 10:59:30 PST
 From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
 Hi Doug,
 If the Postmaster is "unknown" please delete him from your exploder
 list "ietf@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov".  I have been receiving error messages
 like this one for several days now.  If I don't hear from you, I will
 have to delete the above mailbox.
 Ann
 >    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
 > 421 osi3: Host osi3 is down
 > 550 Postmaster... User unknown

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 f.  Message From Coordinator
 Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:34:02 EST
 From: Doug Montgomery <dougm@warthog.ncsl.nist.gov>
 Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
 Sub-Organization: National Computer Systems Laboratory
 To: westine@ISI.EDU
 Subject: RE:  421 osi3: Host osi3 is down
          550 Postmaster... User unknown
 Cc: staff@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov
 I think I have found out what is wrong.  For some reason (we can
 discuss this below)  your exploder is sending IETF mail to our
 exploder (ietf@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov) through the machine
 osi.ncsl.nist.gov.  Now due to a recent subnet reconfiguration and
 subsequent lack of update to our DNS servers, the DNS was returning
 an incorrect address for osi3. Thus IETF mail would be sent to OSI,
 which would try to forward it to OSI3 (using the wrong address).
 OSI would think that OSI3 was down and dump the message, trying to
  send a notice to Postmaster.  OSI doesn't have an aliase for
 Postmaster and thus the second error message that you saw.

Westine & Postel [Page 30] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

  These two problems have been fixed on OSI.  Now the question is what
 address you have in your distribution list that would cause this
 mail to go through OSI in the first place.  I guess you might have
 something like "ietf%osi3@osi.ncsl.nist.gov." The other interesting
 point about your list is that we receive IETF mail to our exploder
  directly from venera.
  Thus I suspect that there are two entries for OSI3 on your
 distribution list.  One that gets relayed through OSI and one that
 points directly to OSI3.  If this is the case  please deleted
  everything except the "ietf@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov." address.
  If this is not the case or if there are other problems let me know.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 g.  My Reply Back
 Here are all the addresses I have on the IETF list under NIST.GOV.
 ietf@OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV,
 mills@OSI.NCSL.NIST.GOV
 I'll deleted "mills@osi.ncsl.nist.gov".
 Here are two others at NIST
 hunt@ENH.NIST.GOV,
 sting@CAM.NIST.GOV
 By the way, on the following message, it looks like the Mailer-Daemon
 message went from OSI.ncsl.nist.gov to enh.nist.gov to venera.isi.edu.
  1. -Ann

Westine & Postel [Page 31] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

     Return-Path: Mailer-Daemon@osi.ncsl.nist.gov
     Received-Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 12:44:11 PST
     Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4)
             id <AA19131>; Thu, 8 Nov 90 12:44:11 PST
     Posted-Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:39:54 EST
     Received: from enh.nist.gov by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
             id <AA03448>; Thu, 8 Nov 90 12:44:01 -0800
     Received: from OSI.NCSL.NIST.GOV by ENH.NIST.GOV;
             Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:43 EDT
     Received: by osi.ncsl.nist.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB14654;
             Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:39:54 EST
     Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:39:54 EST
     From: Mailer-Daemon@osi.ncsl.nist.gov
     Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
     To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
     Message-Id: <9011082039.AB14654@osi.ncsl.nist.gov>
     X-Envelope-To: owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

421 osi3: Host osi3 is down

     550 Postmaster... User unknown
  1. —- Unsent message follows —–

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 h. Another Problem  .Forward
 From: Doug Montgomery <dougm@warthog.ncsl.nist.gov>
 Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
 To: westine@ISI.EDU
 Subject: Re: 421 osi3:Host osi3 is down 550 Postmaster.. User unknown
 Deleting the mills@osi.ncsl.nist.gov entry should fix your problems.
 Mills has a .forward to osi3, thus explaining why IETF mail was going
 ---> OSI ---> OSI3.
 I checked OSI's sendmail.cf and it is relaying through enh.  This,
 though has nothing to do with the previous problem.
 I flushed the queue of IETF mail on OSI waiting to go to OSI3.  I
 don't think you should see anymore bounced messages.
 Sorry that our local problems were causing you grief .... let me know
 if it happens again.

Westine & Postel [Page 32] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

F.14. File Over Allocation

 Date: Tue, 4 Sep 90 10:35:49 -0700
 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Connection timed out during user
          open with ames.arc.nasa.gov
 Posted-Date: Tue, 4 Sep 90 10:35:49 -0700
 To: owner-ietf
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

»> QUIT

 <<< 421 sage.acc.com SMTP Service not available:
     insufficient disk space.
 451 bboard.ietf@SAGE.ACC.COM... reply: read error
      bboard.ietf@SAGE.ACC.COM... reply: read error

F.15. File Deleted

 Date: Fri, 10 Aug 90 14:21:57 EDT
 From: Daemon <daemon@ccj.bbn.com>
 Subject: Undeliverable mail
 To: westine
 Mail could not be delivered to the following address(es):
 /usr/databases/bugs/vaxmail@ccj.bbn.com: No such file
      or directory

F.16. Strange Postmaster

 a.  Message Forwarded to IETF-Request
 Forwarded: Thu, 21 Feb 91 14:31:09 PST
 Forwarded: westine
 Forwarded: postmaster@mbunix.mitre.org
 Forwarded: galvin@TIS.COM
 Return-Path: galvin@TIS.COM
 Received-Date: Sun, 17 Feb 91 17:48:07 PST
 Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4)
         id <AA03679>; Sun, 17 Feb 91 17:48:07 PST
 Posted-Date: Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:12 -0500
 Received: from TIS.COM by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
         id <AA26292>; Sun, 17 Feb 91 17:48:01 -0800
 Received: from TIS.COM by TIS.COM (4.1/SUN-5.64DB)

Westine & Postel [Page 33] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

         id AA04098; Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:13 EST
 Reply-To: James M Galvin <galvin@TIS.COM>
 To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
 Subject: Failed Mail to IETF
 Date: Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:12 -0500
 From: James M Galvin <galvin@TIS.COM>
  1. —— Forwarded Message

Message-ID: 9102160528.AA27189@mbunix.mitre.org

 From:       galvin@tis.com <galvin@TIS.COM>
 To:         Bill_Anderson.G113_MAIL@qmgate.mitre.org
 Date:       15 Feb 91 21:28:28
 Subject:    Can't Find MailCenter!
                 <text deleted>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 b.  Problem Reported to MITRE
 To: postmaster@mbunix.mitre.org
 Cc: westine, galvin@TIS.COM
 Subject: RE:    Can't Find MailCenter!
 Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 91 14:31:01 PST
 From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
 Hi,
 We're getting this problem again.  Please fix.
 Thank you.
 Ann
  1. —— Forwarded Message
 Date:    Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:12 -0500
 From:    James M Galvin <galvin@TIS.COM>
 To:      ietf-request@ISI.EDU
 Subject: Failed Mail to IETF
  1. —— Forwarded Message
    Message-ID: <9102160528.AA27189@mbunix.mitre.org>
    From:       galvin@tis.com <galvin@TIS.COM>
    To:         Bill_Anderson.G113_MAIL@qmgate.mitre.org
    Date:       15 Feb 91 21:28:28
    Subject:    Can't Find MailCenter!

Westine & Postel [Page 34] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

    GatorMail-Q                   Re: 1st PRELIMINARY AGENDA/
    Received: by qmgate; 15 Feb 91 21:28:25
    Received: by mbunix.mitre.org (5.57/4.7)
            id AA25128; Fri, 15 Feb 91 21:26:46 EST
    Received: by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
            id <AA17839>; Fri, 15 Feb 91 08:45:12 -0800
    Posted-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 11:45:16 -0500
    Received-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 08:45:09 -0800
    Received: from TIS.COM by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
            id <AA17833>; Fri, 15 Feb 91 08:45:09 -0800
    Message-Id: <9102151645.AA26445@TIS.COM>
    Reply-To: James M Galvin <galvin@tis.com>
    To: Megan Davies <mdavies@nri.reston.va.us>
    Cc: ietf@venera.isi.edu
    Subject: Re: 1st PRELIMINARY AGENDA/ST. LOUIS
    In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 14 Feb 91 17:44:13 EST.
                 <9102141744.aa15663@NRI.NRI.Reston.VA.US>
    Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 11:45:16 -0500
    From: James M Galvin <galvin@tis.com>
                    <text deleted>

F.17. Message Too Large

 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 17:50:10 MDT
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncar.UCAR.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
 To: <westine@ISI.EDU>
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —– 554

olear@niwot.scd.ucar.edu… Message is too large; 50000 bytes max 554

 olear@niwot.scd.ucar.edu... Service unavailable

Westine & Postel [Page 35] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

F.18. Vacation Messages

 a.  Case 1
 Date: Mon, 8 Oct 90 15:28:30 PDT
 From: David Wasley <dlw@violet.berkeley.edu>
 Subject: I am away from e-mail
 This_Message_Brought_To_You_By: the vacation program
 Apparently-To: owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu
 I am away from e-mail until October 13. If your message requires
 immediate attention, please contact one of the people below:
 Network problems:     Austin Shelton <austins@violet.Berkeley.EDU>
 Network information:  Bill Wells <netinfo@violet.Berkeley.EDU>
   Network installation: Jim Allison <jca@violet.Berkeley.EDU> If
 you're really desparate, leave me voice-mail at (415) 642-3478.
 Thanks for your patience! David Wasley, U C Berkeley

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 b.  Case 2
 Date: Fri, 2 Nov 90 18:17:12 EST
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@dsl.cis.upenn.edu (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 1
 To: <mmm-people-request@ISI.EDU>
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

sh: vacation: not found

 554 "|vacation farber"... unknown mailer error 1

F.19. LocaL Configuration Errors

 Date: Tue, 14 Aug 90 00:36:51 -0400
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@nyu.edu
 Subject: Returned mail: Local configuration error
 To: <owner-ietf>
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

554 russell@NYU.EDU,ittai@NYU.EDU

     Local configuration error

Westine & Postel [Page 36] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

F.20. Service Unavailable

 Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 13:00:39 EDT
 From: Mailer-Daemon@omni.eng.clemson.edu
 Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
 To: <owner-ietf>
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

Connected to eng.clemson.edu:

 >>> HELO omni
 <<< 553 omni host name configuration error
 554 <gkrishn@ENG.CLEMSON.EDU>... Service unavailable
  1. —- Unsent message follows —–

F.21. "Bad File Number"

 To: <owner-ietf>
 From: The UTCS Post Office <postmaster@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>
 Subject: Delivery problems with your mail
 Your message has been received by the University of Toronto Computing
 Services Postal System. A copy of it has been returned to you because
 of difficulties encountered while attempting to deliver your mail.
 The following errors occurred while attempting delivery:
 <smtp madhaus.utcs.utoronto.ca oattes@madhaus.utcs.utoronto.ca 1609>:
  128.100.102.10: 550 <nsr@madhaus.utcs.utoronto.ca>... User unknown:
  Bad file number

F.22. Cannot Append

 Date: Sat, 11 Aug 90 14:51:57 PDT
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.uu.net (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
 To: uunet!venera.isi.edu!owner-ietf@uunet.UU.NET
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

mail: /var/spool/mail/cslater: cannot append

 Mail saved in dead.letter
 554 cslater... Service unavailable

Westine & Postel [Page 37] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

F.23. Error Creating Network Link

 "erlang::chang... Host unknown"
 Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 12:34:20 -0800
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: Deferred
 To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu>
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",

         during mail delivery to <ERLANG::CHIU>.
         Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is:
 %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU
 -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown
 554 <erlang::chiu>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer from
     name server)
 mail11: connect: Connect failed, Node unreachable
 (temporary failure)
  1. —- Recipients of this delivery —–

<erlang::chiu> (bounced)

 <netrix::gillin> (queued, will retry)
 <erlang::rama> (sent)
  1. —- Unsent message follows —–

F.24. Not a Typewriter

 Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 19:36:47 -0700
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
 To: owner-ietf
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

get_status: Not a typewriter

 (mail11 operating system error)
 451 <gray@netrix.enet.dec.com>... Operating system error
 mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object
 (permanent failure)
 554 <bansal@NETRIX.ENET.DEC.COM>... 550 Host unknown
    (Authoritative answer from name server)

Westine & Postel [Page 38] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

  1. —- Recipients of this delivery —–

gray@netrix.enet.dec.com (bounced)

 <bansal@NETRIX.ENET.DEC.COM> (bounced)
  1. —- Unsent message follows —–

F.25. "MTA Congestion"

 Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 22:37:48 -0700
 To: ietf-request
 From: DFN Gateway <postmaster%zix.gmd.dbp.de@RELAY.CS.NET>
 Subject: DFN Mail Network -- failed mail
 Mail Failure Diagnostics:
 Message Recipients:
    weidenhammer@vax.hmi.dbp.de: MTA congestion

F.26. Local Forwarding Not Working

 To: postmaster@ALLSPICE.LCS.MIT.EDU
 Subject: dukach@PTT.LCS.MIT.EDU... User unknown
 Date: Thu, 01 Nov 90 13:20:53 PST
 From: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU>
 Hi,
 Would you mind checking into this error message before I delete this
 person from our list.  I think it may be an internal forwarding
 problem at MIT.  If not let me know if there is a new address or if I
 should delete this one.
  1. -Ann
  1. —— Forwarded Message
    Date:    Thu, 01 Nov 90 12:34:01 -0800
    From:    MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
    To:      owner-dartnet@ISI.EDU
    Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

Westine & Postel [Page 39] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

»> RCPT To:dukach@ALLSPICE.LCS.MIT.EDU

    <<< 550 /u/dukach/.forward:
        line 0: tabasco.lcs.mit.edu... User unknown
    550 dukach@PTT.LCS.MIT.EDU... User unknown
  1. —- Unsent message follows —–
    To: westine@ISI.EDU
    Cc: postmaster@ALLSPICE.LCS.MIT.EDU
    Subject: Re: dukach@PTT.LCS.MIT.EDU... User unknown
    In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 01 Nov 90 13:20:53 -0800.
                 <9011012120.AA19211@venera.isi.edu>
    Date: Thu, 01 Nov 90 17:16:44 -0500
    From: jrd@ALLSPICE.LCS.MIT.EDU
    Ann,
    Please don't delete Semyon. I'll get him to fix his
    configuration.
    Thanks,
    Chuck

F.27. No Such File or Directory

 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 17:57:08 -0800
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@quake.stanford.edu (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 2
 To: <westine@ISI.EDU>
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

«< RCPT To:phil@quake.stanford.edu

 <<< RCPT To:<rick@quake.stanford.edu>
 <<< DATA
 mail: Creating /usr/spool/mail/phil -: No such file or directory
 mail: Creating /usr/spool/mail/rick -: No such file or directory
 Mail saved in dead.letter
 554 <phil@quake.stanford.edu>,<rick@quake.stanford.edu>... unknown
 mailer error

Westine & Postel [Page 40] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

F.28. User Account Terminated

 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 18:21:23 EDT
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@theory.TN.CORNELL.EDU
 Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
 To: <westine@ISI.EDU>
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

Connected to DEVVAX.TN.CORNELL.EDU:

 >>> RCPT To:<alison@devvax.tn.cornell.edu>
 <<< 550 <alison@devvax.tn.cornell.edu>... User unknown
 550 alison@devvax.tn.cornell.edu... User unknown

F.29. Machine Terminated

 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 19:33:26 EDT
 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@edn-vax.dca.mil>
 Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
 To: <westine@ISI.EDU>
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

550 edn-unix.dca.mil.tcp… 550 Host unknown

 550 jsl@edn-unix.dca.mil... Host unknown
  1. —- Unsent message follows —–

F.30. Couldn't Make Final Delivery.

 a.  Case 1
 Date: 29 Aug 90 13:17:34 EST
 From: "SMTP MAILER" <postmaster@ecf.ncsl.nist.gov>
 Subject: Mail Delivery Problem
 To: "owner-ietf" <owner-ietf>
  1. —Reason for mail failure follows—-

Sending mail to recipient(s) Nakassis :

   Couldn't make final delivery.
 %MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening USER2:[000000]NAKASSIS.DIR as output

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Westine & Postel [Page 41] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

 b.  Case 2
 Date:  8 Oct 90 20:24:32 EDT
 From: "SMTP MAILER" <postmaster@imo-uvax.dca.mil>
 Subject: Mail Delivery Problem
 To: "owner-ietf" <owner-ietf@ISI.EDU>
  1. —Reason for mail failure follows—-

Sending mail to recipient(s) morrisd :

   Couldn't make final delivery.
 %MRGATE-E-MRFROMVMS, Error transferring message to Message Router

F.31. Unknown ".ARPA" Hosts Without Updated Hostname

 WHATHOST and DIG show nothing for DCA-EMS.ARPA.  There is no referral
 to the new hostname.  "WHOIS" DCA-EMS came up with the new hostname.
 From: MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
 Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Host Name Lookup Failure
 Posted-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 90 15:59:34 -0800
 To: owner-internet-research-group@ISI.EDU
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

Coviello@DCA-EMS.ARPA,Elliott@DCA-EMS.ARPA,

   Hingorani@DCA-EMS.ARPA... Host unknown
 westine 45% whathost dca-ems.arpa
 Unknown Host: dca-ems.arpa, errno 0, h_errno 1 : Unknown host

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Westine & Postel [Page 42] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

 westine 44% whois dca-ems
 Defense Communications Agency (DCA) (DCA-EMS)
    Office Automation Division
    Code H610
    Washington, DC 20305-2000
    Hostname: DCA-EMS.DCA.MIL
    Address: 26.1.0.76
    System: BBN-C/70 running UNIX
    Host Administrator:
       Wilkinson, Avis D.  (ADW)  AWilkins@DDN-CONUS.DDN.MIL
       (703) 848-4867
    DCA-EMS.DCA.MIL users send E-Mail to AWilkins@DCA-EMS.DCA.MIL
    Record last updated on 10-Sep-90.

F.32. Messages From an Internet Relay to Commercial Mail Systems

 a.  Message Too Large
 Date: 13 Feb 91 04:15:22 EST
 From: Electronic Postmaster <POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM>
 To: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU>
 Subject: Undeliverable message
 Re: ? EMDITB - Mail Delivery Failure. Message too large.
      >EPX [74360,3202]
 Internet Monthly Report
 Your message could not be delivered as addressed.
  1. – Returned message —

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Westine & Postel [Page 43] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

 b.  Invalid Parameters
 Date: 13 Feb 91 05:34 UT
 From: "X.400 Gateway" <MAILER-DAEMON@sprint.com>
 Subject: MHS NonDelivery Report
 To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
 Report from domain /PRMD=/ADMD=telemail/C=us/:
 FAILED delivery to:
1 Recipient ORName:

/PN=tony.y.mazraani/DD.TS=SM55/O=SPRINTINTL/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/

  Translates to:

/PN=tony.y.mazraani/DD.TS=SM55/O=SPRINTINTL/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US

                                                       /@sprint.com
  Reason: unable to transfer
  Diagnostic: invalid parameters

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 c.  Looping
 From: Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu
 To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
 Subject: Delivery Report (failure) for
          Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu
 Message-Type: Delivery Report
 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:34:41 +0000
 Content-Identifier: Why WAN multi...
 This report relates to your message: Why WAN multi...
         of Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:56 +0000
 Your message was not delivered to
         Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu for the following reason:
         Message looping detected (please contact local administrator)
  • The following information is directed towards the local * administrator and is not intended for the end user
  • DR generated by mta pilot.cs.wisc.edu
  • in /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/
  • at Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:34:35 +0000
  • Converted to RFC 822 at pilot.cs.wisc.edu
  • at Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:34:41 +0000

Westine & Postel [Page 44] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

  • Delivery Report Contents:
  • Subject-Submission-Identifier: [/PRMD=xnren/ADMD=

/C=us/;<9012121704.AA08993@decpa.pa.dec]

  • Content-Identifier: Why WAN multi…
  • Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
  • arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:56 +0000 action Relayed
  • Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
  • arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:47 +0000 action Relayed
  • Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
  • arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:21:48 +0000 action Relayed
  • Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
  • arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:05:55 +0000 action Relayed
  • Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
  • arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:05:46 +0000 action Relayed
  • Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
  • arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:57 +0000 action Relayed
  • Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;
  • arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:04:50 +0000 action Relayed
  • Recipient-Info: Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu,
  • /G=Allan/S=Cargille/OU=cs/O=uw-madison/PRMD=xnren/ADMD=
  • /C=us/;
  • FAILURE reason Unable-To-Transfer (1);
  • diagnostic Loop-Detected (3);
  • last trace () Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:04:50 +0000;
  • * End of administration information

Westine & Postel [Page 45] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

F.33. Incomplete DNS Data on Host

 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 90 19:37:51 -0500
 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@shark.cs.fau.edu>
 To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
 Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

550 megasys.com (TCP)… 550 Host unknown

 550 <pax@MEGASYS.COM>... Host unknown (Valid name but no data
     [address])
 westine 27% dig megasys.com any
 ; <<>> DiG <<>> megasys.com any
 ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 6
 ;; flags: qr rd ra  Ques: 1, Ans: 2, Auth: 2, Addit: 3
 ;; QUESTIONS:
 ;;      megasys.com, type = ANY, class = IN
 ;; ANSWERS:
 megasys.com     IN      NS      UUNET.UU.NET    ; 172786
 megasys.com     IN      NS      seismo.CSS.GOV  ; 172786
 ;; AUTHORITY RECORDS:
 MEGASYS.COM     IN      NS      UUNET.UU.NET    ; 172786
 MEGASYS.COM     IN      NS      seismo.CSS.GOV  ; 172786
 ;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS:
 UUNET.UU.NET    IN      A       192.48.96.2     ; 447968
 UUNET.UU.NET    IN      A       137.39.1.2      ; 170920
 seismo.CSS.GOV  IN      A       192.12.141.25   ; 172786

Westine & Postel [Page 46] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

F.34. Sublist Problem

 From: fischer@math.ufl.edu
 Posted-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 EST
 Received: from gimme.math.ufl.edu by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
         id <AA15131>; Mon, 17 Dec 90 09:28:24 -0800
 Received:  by gimme.math.ufl.edu (4.1/4.03)
         id AA05948; Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 EST
 Date: Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 EST
 To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU, postmaster@ISI.EDU
 Subject: here we go again: please release me, let me go...
 Fifth time now(?) I try this every couple of months now,
 figuring you may be hoplesslly backed up.
 Can you remove me from the ietf list?  I may be there as
 either:
         fischer@math.ufl.edu
 or
         netadm@math.ufl.edu
 I would appreciate a confirmation message: I'm ready to use
 crontab for these mailings.
 Many Thanks,
 Randy Fischer

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 To: fischer@math.ufl.edu
 cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU, postmaster@ISI.EDU
 Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
 Subject: Re: here we go again: please release me, let me go...
 In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 -0500.
              <9012171728.AA05948@gimme.math.ufl.edu>
 Date: Mon, 17 Dec 90 10:15:36 PST
 From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu>
 Hi Randy,
 I remember your request, and I also remember telling you that you are
 not on our list (at least individually).  There is an exploder
 "netadm@MATH.UFL.EDU" maintained at UFL.EDU.  You need to check with
 the postmaster to see if you are on their list.  If this is not the
 case, here are the only other addresses I have from UFL.EDU

Westine & Postel [Page 47] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

 ceben@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU,
 esj@UFL.EDU,
 FCLA@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU,
 netadm@MATH.UFL.EDU,
 POKE@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU,
 There is another possibility, perhaps you have a pointer to a mailbox
 somewhere else?
 Regards,
 Ann

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 From: Operator <root@math.ufl.edu>
 To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU, westine@ISI.EDU
 Subject: re: done at last: please release me, let me go...
 Many, many thanks for the reply: I did not, somehow, see your
 previous reply -- perhaps you forwarded it to someone at UFL.EDU
 instead of MATH.UFL.EDU?  Or I missed it in the flow of mail I am
 trying to abate.
 No matter.
 At any rate "netadm@math.ufl.edu" is indeed a local exploder, aliased
 at the moment to myself and one of my assistants.  It is local to the
 "math.ufl.edu" subdomain, and not to "ufl.edu" as your records
 indicate.  I am the postmaster of the "math.ufl.edu", and you should
 be able to verify "math.ufl.edu" has an MX record pointing to
 "mathlab.math.ufl.edu".  I am therefore mailing to you as root from
 that machine.
 Please remove "netadm@math.ufl.edu" from your list.  I have quite
 enjoyed the discussions,  but the volume been overwhelming.
 Thanks very much for your prompt reply,
 Appreciatively,

Westine & Postel [Page 48] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

F.35. File Protection Problem

 From: "Raj Jain, LKG1-2/A19, DTN: 226-7642, 508-486-7642
        09-Feb-1991 0904"
 <jain@erlang.enet.dec.com>
 To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
 Subject: Request to add to IETF
 I seem to have suddenly dropped off the IETF distribution list. I
 have not received any IETF mail since 9-Jan-91. Could you please
 ensure that I am still in the distribution list.
  1. Raj Jain

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 To: "Raj Jain, LKG1-2/A19, DTN: 226-7642,
     508-486-7642 09-Feb-1991 0904" <jain@erlang.enet.dec.com>
 cc: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU, ietf-request
 Reply-To: westine@isi.edu
 Subject: Re: Request to add to IETF
 In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 09 Feb 91 06:07:15 -0800.
              <9102091407.AA06473@decpa.pa.dec.com>
 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 91 11:17:41 PST
 From: Ann Westine <westine@rwa.isi.edu>
 Hi Raj,
 I will readd you to the IETF list.  However, if I receive more error
 messages like this, then I must take your name off the list again.
 I've sent messages to the postmaster at DEC but the problem isn't
 corrected.  Your address isn't the only one, there's CALLON and a few
 others.

Westine & Postel [Page 49] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

 Maybe you can check into this.  Here's the header from one of the
 many error messages I received.
 Regards, --Ann
    Date: Wed, 9 Jan 91 17:04:41 -0800
    From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
    Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
    To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang",

            during mail delivery to <ERLANG::JAIN>.
            Remote error code is 0x7e81fa, message is:
    %MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output
    -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation
            (can't decypher error code)
    550 <jain@ERLANG.DEC.COM>... User unknown
  1. —- Recipients of this delivery —–

jain@ERLANG.DEC.COM (bounced)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 91 17:54:20 EST
 From: "Raj Jain, LKG1-2/A19, DTN: 226-7642, 508-486-7642
        12-Feb-1991 1751"
 <jain@erlang.enet.dec.com>
 To: westine@ISI.EDU
 Subject: Re: Request to add to IETF
 The error message that you sent is unfortunately my mistake and has
 nothing to do with DECWRL. One day I reset protection on all my files
 and directories and didn't realize that even the system did not have
 the privilege to write mail messages on my disk. I discovered it only
 after several people sent phone messages to me. Thanks for adding my
 name again. I will try to be careful.  -Raj

Westine & Postel [Page 50] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

F.36. User Unknown

 a.  Request to be Readded to IETF List
 Date: Mon, 11 Feb 91 10:03:54 PST
 From: "Paul Ciarfella DTN 227-3548 Outside 508 952-3548
       11-Feb-1991 1301"
 <ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com>
 To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
 Subject: add me to the ietf list (again)
 Hi -
 Could I be added to the ietf distribution list (again). I must have
 been dropped from the list somehow.  This happened to me before the
 last ietf - I had to get my name reregistered then, too.
 Thanks,
 Paul Ciarfella ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 b.  Message to User Regarding Readd and Previous Problems
 To: "Paul Ciarfella DTN 227-3548 Outside 508 952-3548  11-Feb-1991
     1301" <ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com>
 Cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU
 Reply-To: westine@ISI.EDU
 Subject: Re: add me to the ietf list (again)
 In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 11 Feb 91 10:03:54 -0800.
              <9102111803.AA11116@decpa.pa.dec.com>
 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 11:05:46 PST
 From: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU>
 Hi Paul,
 Every couple of months I have lots of error messags from several
 individual mailboxes on ENET.DEC.COM.  Here is a typical one.  Since
 I cannot reach you I am forced to delete your mailbox.
 I have sent several messages to the postmaster at DEC but nothing has
 been corrected.  Perhaps you can look into this.
  1. -Ann

Westine & Postel [Page 51] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

    Return-Path: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com
    Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:53:19 PST
    Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4)
            id <AA11360>; Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:53:19 PST
    Posted-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:42:03 -0800
    Received: from decpa.pa.dec.com by venera.isi.edu
            (5.61/5.61+local)
            id <AA08309>; Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:53:17 -0800
    Received: by decpa.pa.dec.com; id AA12106; Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:42:03
    Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:42:03 -0800
    From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
    Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
    Message-Id: <9012120342.AA12106@decpa.pa.dec.com>
    To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU
  1. —- Transcript of session follows —–

mail11: input timeout reading remote object

    get_status: Connection timed out
    (temporary failure)
    mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "levers",
            during mail delivery to <LEVERS::CIARFELLA>.
            Remote error code is 0x7e81fa, message is:
    %MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output
    -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed
    -SYSTEM-W-DIRALLOC, allocation failure on directory file
            (can't decypher error code)
    550 <ciarfella@LEVERS.ENET.DEC.COM>... User unknown
  1. —- Recipients of this delivery —–

hayden@LEVERS.ENET.DEC.COM (queued, will retry)

    <ciarfella@LEVERS.ENET.DEC.COM> (bounced)
    <anil@LEVERS.ENET.DEC.COM> (sent)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Westine & Postel [Page 52] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

 c.  Response from User Regarding Problem
 Return-Path: ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com
 Received-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:25 PST
 Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4)
         id <AA26215>; Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:25 PST
 Posted-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:02 PST
 Received: from decpa.pa.dec.com by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local)
         id <AA04585>; Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:22 -0800
 Received: by decpa.pa.dec.com; id AA14420; Wed, 13
           Feb 91 13:51:00 -0800
 Received: from levers.enet; by decwrl.enet; Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:02 PST
 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:02 PST
 From: "I'll die for my country but I won't kill for Texaco
 13-Feb-1991 1641"
 <ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com>
 To: westine@ISI.EDU
 Subject: re: add me to the ietf list (again)
 Hi Ann,
 Could we try another address for me?  The old address has been
 plagued by disk problems which might explain why the mail is not
 getting delivered.
 The new address to register is:
    ciarfella@quiver.enet.dec.com
 I will check into the problem on this end.  Sorry about the tone of
 my first message but this has been a never-ending problem for over 8
 months.
 Thank you,
 Paul C

5. Security Considerations

 Security issues are not discussed in this memo.

Westine & Postel [Page 53] RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991

6. Authors' Addresses

 Ann Westine
 USC - Information Sciences Institute
 4676 Admiralty Way
 Marina del Rey, CA 90292-6695
 Phone: 213-822-1511
 EMail: Westine@ISI.EDU
 Jon Postel
 USC - Information Sciences Institute
 4676 Admiralty Way
 Marina del Rey, CA 90292-6695
 Phone: 213-822-1511
 EMail: Postel@ISI.EDU

Westine & Postel [Page 54]

/data/webs/external/dokuwiki/data/pages/rfc/rfc1211.txt · Last modified: 1991/03/22 23:06 (external edit)